Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.
I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to
secure a
deposit.


I have sold quite a few boats and co-brokered some others. This is how
it generally works.

1) Look over the boat and decide if she's for you.
2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL
3) Give a deposit. It costs money to do a sea trial. Often the boat is
on the hard. They are not going to launch and take you for a sail if
you're not serious about buying; hence the deposit. Either the
yard/service dept. will pay or the owner. Sometimes the expense is
shared. A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major
brokers.
4) If problems are found during survey or sea trail you may attempt to
re-negotiate the price or just walk away. I've never seen a broker not
return the deposit promptly. If all is in order you're expected to
follow through, but some folks still walk due to cold feet, another
boat or financial issues.
5) We won't arrange anything on some of our larger boats unless we know
you have the means to buy the boat.

A good broker wants you back when you decide to move up to a larger
yacht.


Robert
35s5
NY

"Broker Bob" wrote in message
ps.com...



1) Look over the boat and decide if she's for you.
2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL
3) Give a deposit. It costs money to do a sea trial. Often
the boat is
on the hard. They are not going to launch and take you for
a sail if
you're not serious about buying; hence the deposit. Either
the
yard/service dept. will pay or the owner. Sometimes the
expense is
shared. A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial
at major
brokers.


Do you know a licensed captain, Capt. ?

SBV

Do you know a licensed captain, Capt. ?



Sure, the yard employs two and it looks like I'll need to get mine
soon.



Robert
35s5
NY

Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.
My comments are as follows;

2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL.
That means that I will have to make a deposit of about 10%?
The probability of buying a sailboat on the first look around is possible
but remote.
3) A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major brokers.
Once I buy the boat I will be the one handling the sailboat, setting sails,
trimming,docking, maintaining it and so on.
I am not a maverick but what does a licensed captain have that I do not
already have? I have never turned down good advises and suggestions.
This morning I have a mixed feeling about surveyors. I just learned that
one of my friend lost his rudder on his way to Bermuda and had to be rescued
by a container ship. I hope to get more details on that one.




"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ps.com...

Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.
I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to
secure a
deposit.


I have sold quite a few boats and co-brokered some others. This is how
it generally works.

1) Look over the boat and decide if she's for you.
2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL
3) Give a deposit. It costs money to do a sea trial. Often the boat is
on the hard. They are not going to launch and take you for a sail if
you're not serious about buying; hence the deposit. Either the
yard/service dept. will pay or the owner. Sometimes the expense is
shared. A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major
brokers.
4) If problems are found during survey or sea trail you may attempt to
re-negotiate the price or just walk away. I've never seen a broker not
return the deposit promptly. If all is in order you're expected to
follow through, but some folks still walk due to cold feet, another
boat or financial issues.
5) We won't arrange anything on some of our larger boats unless we know
you have the means to buy the boat.

A good broker wants you back when you decide to move up to a larger
yacht.


Robert
35s5
NY

I think you missed his point here. He never said to make an offer the first
time You look. Take your time and look around, go back for a 2nd or 3rd look
if You find something you like and are interested, research as much as You
can, then when You are comfortable and ready to take things further and have
narrowed Your search down to a couple of boats make Your offer.
A Licensed Captain will have insurance coverage and will resolve You of any
liability if something were to happen while out on a sea trial. After You
purchase the boat and are insured You will be your own captain.
wrote in message
...
Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.
My comments are as follows;

2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL.
That means that I will have to make a deposit of about 10%?
The probability of buying a sailboat on the first look around is possible
but remote.
3) A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major brokers.
Once I buy the boat I will be the one handling the sailboat, setting
sails, trimming,docking, maintaining it and so on.
I am not a maverick but what does a licensed captain have that I do not
already have? I have never turned down good advises and suggestions.
This morning I have a mixed feeling about surveyors. I just learned that
one of my friend lost his rudder on his way to Bermuda and had to be
rescued by a container ship. I hope to get more details on that one.




"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ps.com...

Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.
I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to
secure a
deposit.


I have sold quite a few boats and co-brokered some others. This is how
it generally works.

1) Look over the boat and decide if she's for you.
2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL
3) Give a deposit. It costs money to do a sea trial. Often the boat is
on the hard. They are not going to launch and take you for a sail if
you're not serious about buying; hence the deposit. Either the
yard/service dept. will pay or the owner. Sometimes the expense is
shared. A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major
brokers.
4) If problems are found during survey or sea trail you may attempt to
re-negotiate the price or just walk away. I've never seen a broker not
return the deposit promptly. If all is in order you're expected to
follow through, but some folks still walk due to cold feet, another
boat or financial issues.
5) We won't arrange anything on some of our larger boats unless we know
you have the means to buy the boat.

A good broker wants you back when you decide to move up to a larger
yacht.


Robert
35s5
NY

asked:
what does a licensed captain have that I do not
already have?

At the point the sea trial is taking place, the boat doesn't belong to
you yet. The owner and broker naturally would rather place the
responsibility for the safe operation of the vessel in the hands of a
licensed captain. It seems to me that the liability issues alone would
preclude allowing a prospective buyer from captaining it during the sea
trial. You will certainly be allowed to take the helm, maneuvering it
both under sail and power, but the responsibility will be in the hands
of the captain.

Also, no one has pointed out the obvious, so I'll go ahead and do so.
The purpose of a sea trial is to get the boat on the water, exercise all
it's systems and verify what works and doesn't work. Get the sails up
so you can see how they set, try the boat on all points of sail in an
attempt to detect problems in it's handling, etc. In my limited
experience buying boats, this is not a relaxed "day on the bay", but
rather a quick businesslike checkout of the boat and it's systems. You
should be treating it as an opportunity to discover things that are
wrong with the boat that can be used to either beat the owner down on
the price or to cause you to walk (run?) away from the deal.

Dan Best wrote:
Also, no one has pointed out the obvious, so I'll go ahead and do so.
The purpose of a sea trial is to get the boat on the water, exercise all
it's systems and verify what works and doesn't work. Get the sails up
so you can see how they set, try the boat on all points of sail in an
attempt to detect problems in it's handling, etc. In my limited
experience buying boats, this is not a relaxed "day on the bay", but
rather a quick businesslike checkout of the boat and it's systems.

Yes, exactly... except it can take most of a day, with a
boat that has more than just a few simple systems on board.


.... You
should be treating it as an opportunity to discover things that are
wrong with the boat that can be used to either beat the owner down on
the price or to cause you to walk (run?) away from the deal.

Also to check how all the systems were installed; for
example do the vented loops actually break a siphon (best
done at dockside), and if there is a raw water feed to the
pacjing gland, does it actually flow? How hot does the gland
get when run at full power (for that matter, what about the
engine & tranny)? Do any of the electronics affect the
compass? This can be very important for boats with an
autopilot! Any quirks in the running rigging? How about all
the sails? Better hoist & set every single one of them.
Reefing gear?

This is one reason to bring along a captain, so that the
seller (if he comes along) can show the buyer how everything
works, without either having the distraction of trying to
drive the boat at the same time.

DSK

Was it mentioned that you'll want your surveyor along for
the sea trial?
Sorry, if I'm repeating.

SBV


"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Dan Best wrote:
Also, no one has pointed out the obvious, so I'll go
ahead and do so.
The purpose of a sea trial is to get the boat on the
water, exercise all
it's systems and verify what works and doesn't work.
Get the sails up
so you can see how they set, try the boat on all points
of sail in an
attempt to detect problems in it's handling, etc. In my
limited
experience buying boats, this is not a relaxed "day on
the bay", but
rather a quick businesslike checkout of the boat and
it's systems.

Yes, exactly... except it can take most of a day, with a
boat that has more than just a few simple systems on
board.


.... You
should be treating it as an opportunity to discover
things that are
wrong with the boat that can be used to either beat the
owner down on
the price or to cause you to walk (run?) away from the
deal.

Also to check how all the systems were installed; for
example do the vented loops actually break a siphon (best
done at dockside), and if there is a raw water feed to the
pacjing gland, does it actually flow? How hot does the
gland
get when run at full power (for that matter, what about
the
engine & tranny)? Do any of the electronics affect the
compass? This can be very important for boats with an
autopilot! Any quirks in the running rigging? How about
all
the sails? Better hoist & set every single one of them.
Reefing gear?

This is one reason to bring along a captain, so that the
seller (if he comes along) can show the buyer how
everything
works, without either having the distraction of trying to
drive the boat at the same time.

DSK

wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.
My comments are as follows;

2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL.

This needs to be carefully worded. Brokers usually hand you
a standardized form, which is usually slanted in their (and
the sellers) favor. The phrase "subject to survey & sea
trial" is commonly used and it does NOT mean that the boat's
survey and sea trial must be satisfactory to YOU the buyer.

Don't be afraid to take the standardized contract and use it
as the basis to write up a contract that satisfies you.


That means that I will have to make a deposit of about 10%?

Depends. 10% used to be a standard but nowadays everything
is on a credit card. It needs to be a large enough amount
for the broker to take you seriously. You also need to find
out what he is going to do with the check (deposit it in a
business account, a NOW account, lock it in a bottom drawer,
or whatever).


The probability of buying a sailboat on the first look around is possible
but remote.

Agreed. If you know a particular type of boat you want, then
you can focus on what it's known issues are, look for
problems common to that type, and have a comparison to
sisterships on the market at the same time. If you're just
hunting in general, it's harder.


3) A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major brokers.
Once I buy the boat I will be the one handling the sailboat, setting sails,
trimming,docking, maintaining it and so on.
I am not a maverick but what does a licensed captain have that I do not
already have?

Insurance, and the permission of the seller (he does own the
boat, after all). It's not all bad, a licensed captain
usually has enough experience that he will be worth
listening as he puts the boat thru it's paces.

OTOH it is well within your rights to say "If I don't get to
try it, I'm not going to buy it." The seller shouldn't
refuse to let you work the boat thru normal evolutins that
have no potential harm impending (making sure the reefing
gear works, for example). But you can see why he might be
nervous to let you dock the boat.


I have never turned down good advises and suggestions.
This morning I have a mixed feeling about surveyors. I just learned that
one of my friend lost his rudder on his way to Bermuda and had to be rescued
by a container ship. I hope to get more details on that one.


I hope he gets his boat back.

DSK

Thanks for your feedback. I will use it in the very near future.

"I hope he gets his boat back.'

At first we tough he got rescued by a container ship. At supper it was
confirmed that the US Coast Guard did the rescue close to Bermuda.

The feedback we got at our club is that the rudder became non operational at
the high of the big storm.

He and his crew are presently resting in Bermuda.

We do not know where his boat is at this time. Surprisingly there are always
people listening on the radio during a rescue and May Day. Either the boat
is still floating freely or some towing companies have their eyes on it.
Time will tell.

A Canadian Navy frigate is presently on its way to rescue another Canadian
Sailboat at about 650 miles south of Yarmouth Nova Scotia. It is reported
that the winds are very strong and the sea rough enough for the Frigate to
use storm tactics and to proceed with caution. One of the tactics used is to
point into the wind with the engine geared at the proper speed until the
worst is over.

I'll be watching the news tonight!

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.
My comments are as follows;

2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL.

This needs to be carefully worded. Brokers usually hand you a standardized
form, which is usually slanted in their (and the sellers) favor. The
phrase "subject to survey & sea trial" is commonly used and it does NOT
mean that the boat's survey and sea trial must be satisfactory to YOU the
buyer.

Don't be afraid to take the standardized contract and use it as the basis
to write up a contract that satisfies you.


That means that I will have to make a deposit of about 10%?

Depends. 10% used to be a standard but nowadays everything is on a credit
card. It needs to be a large enough amount for the broker to take you
seriously. You also need to find out what he is going to do with the check
(deposit it in a business account, a NOW account, lock it in a bottom
drawer, or whatever).


The probability of buying a sailboat on the first look around is possible
but remote.

Agreed. If you know a particular type of boat you want, then you can focus
on what it's known issues are, look for problems common to that type, and
have a comparison to sisterships on the market at the same time. If you're
just hunting in general, it's harder.


3) A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major brokers.
Once I buy the boat I will be the one handling the sailboat, setting
sails, trimming,docking, maintaining it and so on.
I am not a maverick but what does a licensed captain have that I do not
already have?

Insurance, and the permission of the seller (he does own the boat, after
all). It's not all bad, a licensed captain usually has enough experience
that he will be worth listening as he puts the boat thru it's paces.

OTOH it is well within your rights to say "If I don't get to try it, I'm
not going to buy it." The seller shouldn't refuse to let you work the boat
thru normal evolutins that have no potential harm impending (making sure
the reefing gear works, for example). But you can see why he might be
nervous to let you dock the boat.


I have never turned down good advises and suggestions.
This morning I have a mixed feeling about surveyors. I just learned that
one of my friend lost his rudder on his way to Bermuda and had to be
rescued by a container ship. I hope to get more details on that one.


I hope he gets his boat back.

DSK