other brokers charge for this?



Have you ever shopped for a boat. There are many small brokers that
don't offer a sea trial at all.



Robert
35s5
NY

I am seriously in the market for a replacement sailboat.
I was offer a sea trial several time. Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.
I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to secure a
deposit.
Once the deposit is secured by the broker the negotiation wheel starts.
You then get involved in surveying cost for the hull and the engine. Then
if you are not happy about the boat you may ask for you deposit and you
write off the surveying cost.
In some places the broker may retain administration cost out of your
deposit? I do not have any statistic on how fast you can get your deposit
back?

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...


other brokers charge for this?



Have you ever shopped for a boat. There are many small brokers that
don't offer a sea trial at all.



Robert
35s5
NY

wrote:
I am seriously in the market for a replacement sailboat.
I was offer a sea trial several time. Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.

Sure, you can't expect a broker to take you for a free boat
ride just because he's a nice guy and you claim you might
like to buy one. Look at it from his point of view, just a
little.


I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to secure a
deposit.
Once the deposit is secured by the broker the negotiation wheel starts.

Actually, you should not put down a deposit unless you've
already negotiated the majority of the deal... in all the
cases where I've bought boats, I had an offer embodied in a
contract before I put down a deposit.


You then get involved in surveying cost for the hull and the engine. Then
if you are not happy about the boat you may ask for you deposit and you
write off the surveying cost.

Yep. That's the way the game is played. The best way is to
just be a tire-kicker until you have zeroed in on what you
are pretty sure is the right boat for you. There is no rose
garden of boats to try & reject for free until you find one
you can live with. It's kind of like getting engaged to
marry a girl.


In some places the broker may retain administration cost out of your
deposit?

I've heard of that but not seen it done. I have seen a few
brokers claim bad faith by the buyer and keep the deposit,
and in some cases they were justified.


I do not have any statistic on how fast you can get your deposit
back?


It's supposed to be held in escrow in a non-interest-bearing
account, although I don't think that's a legal requirement.
All the brokers I ever dealt with kept the deposit check
uncashed in their safe deposit box, and simply handed it
back if the deal fell through.

It can certainly be discouraging dealing with brokers, and I
wouldn't blame you for avoiding them. However not all
brokers are crooks. The best way to shop is to have the
knowledge & experience to get down & dirty choosing &
inspecting a boat for yourself. There are a number of books
that can be a big help but experience is the best teacher.
There's even some good advice on teh internet... sometimes

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Sure, you can't expect a broker to take you for a free boat
ride just because he's a nice guy and you claim you might
like to buy one. Look at it from his point of view, just a
little.
I gave up the Sea trial proposal. This on the ground that the trials could
be used as an intimidation tactic to ham strung you into an unwanted
situation or to reflect a freeloader's picture. I have learned that the best
way to find out about a boat handling characteristics is to ask other non
selling senior sailors at boat clubs. Bearing in mind that some are racers,
cruisers and passage makers.

As an example in my area the Volvo diesel engine are not very popular. Its
not that they are deems to be no good its because we cannot get parts and if
we do we have to pay an arm and a leg for them.


"DSK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I am seriously in the market for a replacement sailboat.
I was offer a sea trial several time. Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.

Sure, you can't expect a broker to take you for a free boat ride just
because he's a nice guy and you claim you might like to buy one. Look at
it from his point of view, just a little.


I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to
secure a deposit.
Once the deposit is secured by the broker the negotiation wheel starts.

Actually, you should not put down a deposit unless you've already
negotiated the majority of the deal... in all the cases where I've bought
boats, I had an offer embodied in a contract before I put down a deposit.


You then get involved in surveying cost for the hull and the engine.
Then if you are not happy about the boat you may ask for you deposit and
you write off the surveying cost.

Yep. That's the way the game is played. The best way is to just be a
tire-kicker until you have zeroed in on what you are pretty sure is the
right boat for you. There is no rose garden of boats to try & reject for
free until you find one you can live with. It's kind of like getting
engaged to marry a girl.


In some places the broker may retain administration cost out of your
deposit?

I've heard of that but not seen it done. I have seen a few brokers claim
bad faith by the buyer and keep the deposit, and in some cases they were
justified.


I do not have any statistic on how fast you can get your deposit back?


It's supposed to be held in escrow in a non-interest-bearing account,
although I don't think that's a legal requirement. All the brokers I ever
dealt with kept the deposit check uncashed in their safe deposit box, and
simply handed it back if the deal fell through.

It can certainly be discouraging dealing with brokers, and I wouldn't
blame you for avoiding them. However not all brokers are crooks. The best
way to shop is to have the knowledge & experience to get down & dirty
choosing & inspecting a boat for yourself. There are a number of books
that can be a big help but experience is the best teacher. There's even
some good advice on teh internet... sometimes

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.
I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to
secure a
deposit.


I have sold quite a few boats and co-brokered some others. This is how
it generally works.

1) Look over the boat and decide if she's for you.
2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL
3) Give a deposit. It costs money to do a sea trial. Often the boat is
on the hard. They are not going to launch and take you for a sail if
you're not serious about buying; hence the deposit. Either the
yard/service dept. will pay or the owner. Sometimes the expense is
shared. A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major
brokers.
4) If problems are found during survey or sea trail you may attempt to
re-negotiate the price or just walk away. I've never seen a broker not
return the deposit promptly. If all is in order you're expected to
follow through, but some folks still walk due to cold feet, another
boat or financial issues.
5) We won't arrange anything on some of our larger boats unless we know
you have the means to buy the boat.

A good broker wants you back when you decide to move up to a larger
yacht.


Robert
35s5
NY

"Broker Bob" wrote in message
ps.com...



1) Look over the boat and decide if she's for you.
2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL
3) Give a deposit. It costs money to do a sea trial. Often
the boat is
on the hard. They are not going to launch and take you for
a sail if
you're not serious about buying; hence the deposit. Either
the
yard/service dept. will pay or the owner. Sometimes the
expense is
shared. A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial
at major
brokers.


Do you know a licensed captain, Capt. ?

SBV

Do you know a licensed captain, Capt. ?



Sure, the yard employs two and it looks like I'll need to get mine
soon.



Robert
35s5
NY

Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.
My comments are as follows;

2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL.
That means that I will have to make a deposit of about 10%?
The probability of buying a sailboat on the first look around is possible
but remote.
3) A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major brokers.
Once I buy the boat I will be the one handling the sailboat, setting sails,
trimming,docking, maintaining it and so on.
I am not a maverick but what does a licensed captain have that I do not
already have? I have never turned down good advises and suggestions.
This morning I have a mixed feeling about surveyors. I just learned that
one of my friend lost his rudder on his way to Bermuda and had to be rescued
by a container ship. I hope to get more details on that one.




"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ps.com...

Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.
I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to
secure a
deposit.


I have sold quite a few boats and co-brokered some others. This is how
it generally works.

1) Look over the boat and decide if she's for you.
2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL
3) Give a deposit. It costs money to do a sea trial. Often the boat is
on the hard. They are not going to launch and take you for a sail if
you're not serious about buying; hence the deposit. Either the
yard/service dept. will pay or the owner. Sometimes the expense is
shared. A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major
brokers.
4) If problems are found during survey or sea trail you may attempt to
re-negotiate the price or just walk away. I've never seen a broker not
return the deposit promptly. If all is in order you're expected to
follow through, but some folks still walk due to cold feet, another
boat or financial issues.
5) We won't arrange anything on some of our larger boats unless we know
you have the means to buy the boat.

A good broker wants you back when you decide to move up to a larger
yacht.


Robert
35s5
NY

I think you missed his point here. He never said to make an offer the first
time You look. Take your time and look around, go back for a 2nd or 3rd look
if You find something you like and are interested, research as much as You
can, then when You are comfortable and ready to take things further and have
narrowed Your search down to a couple of boats make Your offer.
A Licensed Captain will have insurance coverage and will resolve You of any
liability if something were to happen while out on a sea trial. After You
purchase the boat and are insured You will be your own captain.
wrote in message
...
Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.
My comments are as follows;

2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL.
That means that I will have to make a deposit of about 10%?
The probability of buying a sailboat on the first look around is possible
but remote.
3) A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major brokers.
Once I buy the boat I will be the one handling the sailboat, setting
sails, trimming,docking, maintaining it and so on.
I am not a maverick but what does a licensed captain have that I do not
already have? I have never turned down good advises and suggestions.
This morning I have a mixed feeling about surveyors. I just learned that
one of my friend lost his rudder on his way to Bermuda and had to be
rescued by a container ship. I hope to get more details on that one.




"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ps.com...

Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.
I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to
secure a
deposit.


I have sold quite a few boats and co-brokered some others. This is how
it generally works.

1) Look over the boat and decide if she's for you.
2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL
3) Give a deposit. It costs money to do a sea trial. Often the boat is
on the hard. They are not going to launch and take you for a sail if
you're not serious about buying; hence the deposit. Either the
yard/service dept. will pay or the owner. Sometimes the expense is
shared. A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major
brokers.
4) If problems are found during survey or sea trail you may attempt to
re-negotiate the price or just walk away. I've never seen a broker not
return the deposit promptly. If all is in order you're expected to
follow through, but some folks still walk due to cold feet, another
boat or financial issues.
5) We won't arrange anything on some of our larger boats unless we know
you have the means to buy the boat.

A good broker wants you back when you decide to move up to a larger
yacht.


Robert
35s5
NY

asked:
what does a licensed captain have that I do not
already have?

At the point the sea trial is taking place, the boat doesn't belong to
you yet. The owner and broker naturally would rather place the
responsibility for the safe operation of the vessel in the hands of a
licensed captain. It seems to me that the liability issues alone would
preclude allowing a prospective buyer from captaining it during the sea
trial. You will certainly be allowed to take the helm, maneuvering it
both under sail and power, but the responsibility will be in the hands
of the captain.

Also, no one has pointed out the obvious, so I'll go ahead and do so.
The purpose of a sea trial is to get the boat on the water, exercise all
it's systems and verify what works and doesn't work. Get the sails up
so you can see how they set, try the boat on all points of sail in an
attempt to detect problems in it's handling, etc. In my limited
experience buying boats, this is not a relaxed "day on the bay", but
rather a quick businesslike checkout of the boat and it's systems. You
should be treating it as an opportunity to discover things that are
wrong with the boat that can be used to either beat the owner down on
the price or to cause you to walk (run?) away from the deal.