atico wrote:
I may sound a little stupid but "what is a broker's licence and what to you
gain by dealing with a broker"

The seller gets his boat advertised widely and represented
favorably to a larger number of buyers than he could do
himself. The buyer gets to choose from a wider range of
boats than he could otherwise, and (in theory) has a
professional supervising the transfer of ownership so that
neither party gets robbed.

Of course, the buyer has the burden of being diligent about
choosing & inspecting the yacht. OTOH the buyer should not
have to worry about being defrauded.


Why are they using this disclaimer"

Because *everybody* uses a disclaimer these days. Haven't
you noticed how many waivers & disclaimers you have to sign
before doing anything these days? Half the country seems to
just be itching for any excuse to sue the other half.

I think the lawyers guilds should pay me for my time wasted
with all this crapola, maybe I should just sue them.

DSK

The seller gets his boat advertised widely and represented
favorably to a larger number of buyers than he could do
himself. The buyer gets to choose from a wider range of
boats than he could otherwise, and (in theory) has a
professional supervising the transfer of ownership so that
neither party gets robbed.




This is a very uneducated summation of what a broker can do. Better
brokers, like the ones found here, can also have a full service
facility. For the most part I think it's best to deal with full service
yard/brokers when possible. Here are some of the advantages of dealing
with us:

1) Large selection
2) Extended warranty on some new boats and engines.
3) Quick modifications of a vessel worked into a deal
4) FREE sea trial of every boat we sell.
5) Easy handling of red tape for documentation and
registration/insurance.
6) Someone to turn to if you have a problem after the deal is done.
7) Better pricing in some situations where mods and repairs are
required.

If your broker can't do this or most of this, you might as well buy
privately if you can. My guess is that DSK thinks a full service broker
works on 10% as well.


Robert
35s5
NY

" Rob" wrote in message
oups.com..
..

4) FREE sea trial of every boat we sell.

other brokers charge for this?

SBV

other brokers charge for this?



Have you ever shopped for a boat. There are many small brokers that
don't offer a sea trial at all.



Robert
35s5
NY

I am seriously in the market for a replacement sailboat.
I was offer a sea trial several time. Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.
I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to secure a
deposit.
Once the deposit is secured by the broker the negotiation wheel starts.
You then get involved in surveying cost for the hull and the engine. Then
if you are not happy about the boat you may ask for you deposit and you
write off the surveying cost.
In some places the broker may retain administration cost out of your
deposit? I do not have any statistic on how fast you can get your deposit
back?

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...


other brokers charge for this?



Have you ever shopped for a boat. There are many small brokers that
don't offer a sea trial at all.



Robert
35s5
NY

wrote:
I am seriously in the market for a replacement sailboat.
I was offer a sea trial several time. Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.

Sure, you can't expect a broker to take you for a free boat
ride just because he's a nice guy and you claim you might
like to buy one. Look at it from his point of view, just a
little.


I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to secure a
deposit.
Once the deposit is secured by the broker the negotiation wheel starts.

Actually, you should not put down a deposit unless you've
already negotiated the majority of the deal... in all the
cases where I've bought boats, I had an offer embodied in a
contract before I put down a deposit.


You then get involved in surveying cost for the hull and the engine. Then
if you are not happy about the boat you may ask for you deposit and you
write off the surveying cost.

Yep. That's the way the game is played. The best way is to
just be a tire-kicker until you have zeroed in on what you
are pretty sure is the right boat for you. There is no rose
garden of boats to try & reject for free until you find one
you can live with. It's kind of like getting engaged to
marry a girl.


In some places the broker may retain administration cost out of your
deposit?

I've heard of that but not seen it done. I have seen a few
brokers claim bad faith by the buyer and keep the deposit,
and in some cases they were justified.


I do not have any statistic on how fast you can get your deposit
back?


It's supposed to be held in escrow in a non-interest-bearing
account, although I don't think that's a legal requirement.
All the brokers I ever dealt with kept the deposit check
uncashed in their safe deposit box, and simply handed it
back if the deal fell through.

It can certainly be discouraging dealing with brokers, and I
wouldn't blame you for avoiding them. However not all
brokers are crooks. The best way to shop is to have the
knowledge & experience to get down & dirty choosing &
inspecting a boat for yourself. There are a number of books
that can be a big help but experience is the best teacher.
There's even some good advice on teh internet... sometimes

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Sure, you can't expect a broker to take you for a free boat
ride just because he's a nice guy and you claim you might
like to buy one. Look at it from his point of view, just a
little.
I gave up the Sea trial proposal. This on the ground that the trials could
be used as an intimidation tactic to ham strung you into an unwanted
situation or to reflect a freeloader's picture. I have learned that the best
way to find out about a boat handling characteristics is to ask other non
selling senior sailors at boat clubs. Bearing in mind that some are racers,
cruisers and passage makers.

As an example in my area the Volvo diesel engine are not very popular. Its
not that they are deems to be no good its because we cannot get parts and if
we do we have to pay an arm and a leg for them.


"DSK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I am seriously in the market for a replacement sailboat.
I was offer a sea trial several time. Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.

Sure, you can't expect a broker to take you for a free boat ride just
because he's a nice guy and you claim you might like to buy one. Look at
it from his point of view, just a little.


I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to
secure a deposit.
Once the deposit is secured by the broker the negotiation wheel starts.

Actually, you should not put down a deposit unless you've already
negotiated the majority of the deal... in all the cases where I've bought
boats, I had an offer embodied in a contract before I put down a deposit.


You then get involved in surveying cost for the hull and the engine.
Then if you are not happy about the boat you may ask for you deposit and
you write off the surveying cost.

Yep. That's the way the game is played. The best way is to just be a
tire-kicker until you have zeroed in on what you are pretty sure is the
right boat for you. There is no rose garden of boats to try & reject for
free until you find one you can live with. It's kind of like getting
engaged to marry a girl.


In some places the broker may retain administration cost out of your
deposit?

I've heard of that but not seen it done. I have seen a few brokers claim
bad faith by the buyer and keep the deposit, and in some cases they were
justified.


I do not have any statistic on how fast you can get your deposit back?


It's supposed to be held in escrow in a non-interest-bearing account,
although I don't think that's a legal requirement. All the brokers I ever
dealt with kept the deposit check uncashed in their safe deposit box, and
simply handed it back if the deal fell through.

It can certainly be discouraging dealing with brokers, and I wouldn't
blame you for avoiding them. However not all brokers are crooks. The best
way to shop is to have the knowledge & experience to get down & dirty
choosing & inspecting a boat for yourself. There are a number of books
that can be a big help but experience is the best teacher. There's even
some good advice on teh internet... sometimes

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.
I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to
secure a
deposit.


I have sold quite a few boats and co-brokered some others. This is how
it generally works.

1) Look over the boat and decide if she's for you.
2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL
3) Give a deposit. It costs money to do a sea trial. Often the boat is
on the hard. They are not going to launch and take you for a sail if
you're not serious about buying; hence the deposit. Either the
yard/service dept. will pay or the owner. Sometimes the expense is
shared. A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major
brokers.
4) If problems are found during survey or sea trail you may attempt to
re-negotiate the price or just walk away. I've never seen a broker not
return the deposit promptly. If all is in order you're expected to
follow through, but some folks still walk due to cold feet, another
boat or financial issues.
5) We won't arrange anything on some of our larger boats unless we know
you have the means to buy the boat.

A good broker wants you back when you decide to move up to a larger
yacht.


Robert
35s5
NY

"Broker Bob" wrote in message
ps.com...



1) Look over the boat and decide if she's for you.
2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL
3) Give a deposit. It costs money to do a sea trial. Often
the boat is
on the hard. They are not going to launch and take you for
a sail if
you're not serious about buying; hence the deposit. Either
the
yard/service dept. will pay or the owner. Sometimes the
expense is
shared. A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial
at major
brokers.


Do you know a licensed captain, Capt. ?

SBV

Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.
My comments are as follows;

2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL.
That means that I will have to make a deposit of about 10%?
The probability of buying a sailboat on the first look around is possible
but remote.
3) A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major brokers.
Once I buy the boat I will be the one handling the sailboat, setting sails,
trimming,docking, maintaining it and so on.
I am not a maverick but what does a licensed captain have that I do not
already have? I have never turned down good advises and suggestions.
This morning I have a mixed feeling about surveyors. I just learned that
one of my friend lost his rudder on his way to Bermuda and had to be rescued
by a container ship. I hope to get more details on that one.




"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ps.com...

Each time, before the trial the
broker insisted on having a deposit to show my good intend.
I soon learned that the Sea Trial approach was a broker's tactic to
secure a
deposit.


I have sold quite a few boats and co-brokered some others. This is how
it generally works.

1) Look over the boat and decide if she's for you.
2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL
3) Give a deposit. It costs money to do a sea trial. Often the boat is
on the hard. They are not going to launch and take you for a sail if
you're not serious about buying; hence the deposit. Either the
yard/service dept. will pay or the owner. Sometimes the expense is
shared. A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major
brokers.
4) If problems are found during survey or sea trail you may attempt to
re-negotiate the price or just walk away. I've never seen a broker not
return the deposit promptly. If all is in order you're expected to
follow through, but some folks still walk due to cold feet, another
boat or financial issues.
5) We won't arrange anything on some of our larger boats unless we know
you have the means to buy the boat.

A good broker wants you back when you decide to move up to a larger
yacht.


Robert
35s5
NY