It need not be very expensive though (in terms of what boat
stuff costs, anyway). The main expense would be getting the
frame strong & rigid enough, and after that, providing low
friction bearings to reduce working drag down to the point
where there is sufficient power to control the helm.


Lauri Tarkkonen wrote:
Do the low friction bearings come cheap? I thougt that here the price is
related the other way around, the more friction the cheaper. :-).


Well, sure. All the way down to a rock, which is max
friction but free

The first couple of cheapo rigs I tried had too much
friction. Then I just used a bicycle hub... lasted only a
couple weeks in the salt water, but if you buy a cheap
2nd-hand bike (or steal one) it comes with a spare.



The geometry is worked out and with the tiller you have a continuous
adjustment, because you can attach the line pulling the tiller in
different postiions of the tiller, giving you control of the lever arm.


Right, but unless your tiller in infinitely long, the system
has to generate enough force to move it against weather helm
(up to a point).

There is a clever windvane rig I saw some time ago that used
a tiller pilot for an actuator, and would follow the wind or
the compass depending on which you chose.


I have a good windvane, but while motoring and if I want just a
temporary relief from the helm, I use the tillerpilot. If I know I am
going to sail for the next few hour or more, I rig the windvane.


One of the issues with using a windvane on some boats is
that they generate apparent wind, and can wander all over
the place as the accelerate & decelerate. I heard a story
about a fellow who fitted one to a reasonably fast cruising
cat, and with every gust the boat would accelerate & bear
away, until suddenly it stalled and would almost come to a
stop, and refuse to resume course.

Tiller pilots don't do that, although they do have some
other annoying shortcomings

DSK

The technique that Slocum used downwind was to sheet the main out as one
normally would, but the jib, w/ a club foot I believe, was sheeted in tight.
When the main caused Spray to head up, the jib would force her head back
down. Helm was probably lashed.
I suspect that sheet to tiller requires so much trial and effort that one
turns to other means. But as in many things, if there are no other options,
one would be more determined to make the solution at hand work.

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:ebS%g.7278$ke4.1160@trndny02...
Lauri,,, I agree and disagree ... both.

Yes, a wind vane that will work in all conditions must be of high quality,
and probably expensive..

No, a wind vane that will work ok, but not great, and won't be used in all
conditions, just something to take the edge off.

That is why I got looking at the sheet to tiller self steering system.
Not for going around the world, just a system to take the edge off along
the coast of New England.

The question in my mind is: what did the lone sailors do before the wind
vane? How did Joshua Slocum steer the Spray?

Did they tie off the helm? And if yes, how long would the boat stay on
course?

As far as the "Vane" part of the system goes, even a dope like me can make
that. It is the stainless and pendulem etc that gets the trouble going.

Couldn't a vane be set up that would work with the tiller, but not a
permanent system?

I'm looking for the one hour wind vane. One hour to go below, take a
s...t, eat, grab some charts, change the music, get a wine for the boss,
............ then back top, sit behind the helm ,,..... and wait for
boss to drink said wine,,,,, then boss will get hot and come sit next to
helmsman,,,,,, and then ..............................
??????????????????? another hour of self steering is called for.


==============================
"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In woR%g.4294$Wp3.2820@trndny05 "NE Sailboat"
writes:

I would love to get a wind vane system ............ but at $3,000 ???
Probably won't happen.

I wonder if there is a Poor Man's Wind Vane... a system that could use
the
apparent wind to steer and the controls would go to the tiller in the
cockpit.

The problem is that if you want a windvane that works in almost any
conditions and lasts for years and years and does not let you down when
you have gone in the cabib to make some coffee and sandwiches or to goo
to the loo, then it is not a cheap system to build.

If you think that the power generated by the wind will be the one used
to actually steer the boat, then you need some wind or your wane must be
very big. In the best windvanes the steering action is geretade by the
boats speed through the water with a servo pendulum oar and the wind is
just controlling the angle of this oar to the water.

They say, that a poor man can not afford to buy cheap,he must buy
quality.

I would not recommend anyone to depend on a cheapo windvane, this does
not mean, that one should not be avare of ways to make tackles for
temporary use, as it is possible you need it for various reasons while
underway.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 23:03:14 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

My new bride, the former Paris Hilton, can't do anything except &^%$#. And,
she does that with every Captain in the harbor!

But ,,, I still love her.

And you should, every chance you get. An autopilot will help with
that.

Some of us have figured out that the best approach is to plonk people like
Chuckles.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Chi Chi" wrote in message
.. .
You all remind me of a bunch of immature school children! Grow up and cut
out this crap I don't think the group needs or wants to read this garbage.
"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:36:47 -0400, DSK wrote:

Charlie Morgan wrote:
Okay, Doug. Please describe the windvane setup on your own sailboat.
Oh, you
don't have a windvane OR a sailboat? Well, can you then describe the
windvane on
a sailboatt you USED to have?

Sure.
An Aries on a Saga 43, mounted slightly off center.

Then I have also used an English built windvane on a Whitby
42 ketch.

The first wind vane I ever used, I built myself and used on
a series of boats. One was a bubble-top Columbia 26, another
was the King's Cruiser owned by my father.


.... Oh, you've never had a sailboat with a windvane?

What gives you that idea?

Okay... What's that Doug? You say that your crusing in sailboats
consisted of
dragging a Hunter 19 on a trailer down the highway? WOW!


Not only that, I have a buddy who claims to have radar on a
C&C 27.

DSK

Took you quite a while to come up with this fantasy. Writer's block?

CWM

"Charlie Morgan" wrote
Why don't you just go back to sucking
your lemon over in your usual hangout where most of your
posts are whiny
complaints about how everybody has anger problems and
needs help.


So, Chuckie, this is your contribution to this thread? You
posted from the break room at Wal Mart just to add this?

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Morgan" wrote
Why don't you just go back to sucking
your lemon over in your usual hangout where most of your
posts are whiny
complaints about how everybody has anger problems and
needs help.


So, Chuckie, this is your contribution to this thread? You
posted from the break room at Wal Mart just to add this?

Hey Wal-Mart has great, cheap chargers I heard... :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

NE Sailboat wrote:

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:51:32 -0400, DSK wrote:



Okay, Doug. Please describe the windvane setup on your own sailboat. Oh,
you
don't have a windvane OR a sailboat? Well, can you then describe the
windvane on
a sailboatt you USED to have? Oh, you've never had a sailboat with a
windvane?
Okay... What's that Doug? You say that your crusing in sailboats consisted
of
dragging a Hunter 19 on a trailer down the highway? WOW!

CWM

=========================

Charlie ,, you are a cruel man ... but I must say I am laughing out loud.
Old DSK must be smoking after your posting.

Rig for ramming speed.

======================

I have been making progress in the self steering department ....

It seems that the sheet to tiller self steering is not the best system, but
if it will work for a short time, that is all I need.

I have read lots and lots of info on the wind vane, very interesting
reading. While some swear by them, others go on and on about the problems
of weight, blah blah blah ... I might even get one some time but I am not
in need of one at this time.

See ya

I trust you found this page: http://snipurl.com/10k80 ?
Several good links about halfway down, also.

DT

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" wrote in message
...


So, Chuckie, this is your contribution to this thread?
You
posted from the break room at Wal Mart just to add
this?

Hey Wal-Mart has great, cheap chargers I heard... :-)


I hear they have a whole ''marine dept.'', and Chucky gets
an employee discount.

SBV

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" wrote in message
...


So, Chuckie, this is your contribution to this thread?
You
posted from the break room at Wal Mart just to add
this?

Hey Wal-Mart has great, cheap chargers I heard... :-)


I hear they have a whole ''marine dept.'', and Chucky gets
an employee discount.

SBV

Don't put down Wal-Mart. That's not nice.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

DT ,, yes, I did.. what a great web site.. this guy has done some great
stuff with his boat.


=======


"dt" wrote in message
...
NE Sailboat wrote:

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:51:32 -0400, DSK wrote:



Okay, Doug. Please describe the windvane setup on your own sailboat. Oh,
you
don't have a windvane OR a sailboat? Well, can you then describe the
windvane on
a sailboatt you USED to have? Oh, you've never had a sailboat with a
windvane?
Okay... What's that Doug? You say that your crusing in sailboats
consisted of
dragging a Hunter 19 on a trailer down the highway? WOW!

CWM

=========================

Charlie ,, you are a cruel man ... but I must say I am laughing out
loud. Old DSK must be smoking after your posting.

Rig for ramming speed.

======================

I have been making progress in the self steering department ....

It seems that the sheet to tiller self steering is not the best system,
but if it will work for a short time, that is all I need.

I have read lots and lots of info on the wind vane, very interesting
reading. While some swear by them, others go on and on about the
problems of weight, blah blah blah ... I might even get one some time
but I am not in need of one at this time.

See ya

I trust you found this page: http://snipurl.com/10k80 ?
Several good links about halfway down, also.

DT