In .com " writes:

Lauri Tarkkonen wrote:
In .com " writes:
...
Because it is different for different boats, it is perhaps necessary to
bring some other angles into this.

I agree with you and I want to make it clear that the "benefits" and
"costs" I listed were in relation to my current boat which is a
moderatly quick and light multihull. I think that the percentage of
light fast boats in the "serious" cruising fleet here in the Pacific is
growing quickly but as you rightly point out a significant majority of
the boats out here are well suited to wind-vane steering. Long range
cruisers in small boats (say less than 65 feet) that can use wind vane
steering probably ought to use it and will probably love it.

...
II. Costs:
1) very expensive compared to electronic self steering unless home
built.

Expensive compared to cheap electronics, but one should not compare the
price of a state of the art windvane to the cheapest electronic pilots.

Here in the States you can get a pretty nice gyro assised AP unit for
about half the price of quality vane set-up. My B&G system cost me
about the same as a vane but has a lot more functionality. YMMV.

Looks like the price difference is not as much as you wanted to point
out. By the way, I have had so many failures with the B&G system, that I
am happy that it does not steer my boat.

2) Adds a lot of weight to the end of the boat reducing available
payload, increasing ptiching moment and increasing drag. Speed and
seakeeping costs are larger on total and percantage basis as boats get
lighter and faster.

Windpilot Pacific (boats from 30 to 65 feet) weights 44 lbs (20 kg), I
would not call this a lot. I am positive that in a 40 foor boat you can
not see or feel the difference in pitching.

Here I disagree. I've delivered boats in "cruise" mode and then sailed
them in "race" mode and the differences are astounding. Race mode
isn't just faster, it more comfortable if slowed to the same speed as
cruise mode, too. I grant you that this may be a hard sell here in
rbc, but weight in the ends of boats is very bad. If you put 20 kg on
the stearn of most 40 ft boats the stearn will sink a cm or two. This
doens't seem signifcant. Typically the owner will just move a bit of
junk foreward to bring the boat on to her lines. The pitching moment
has been increased by the 20 kg times the square of it's distance from
the center of pitching and has also been increased by moving the other
stuff to re-trim the boat. At this point the amout of time it takes
for the boat to respond to a wave has been increased noticably. At
least noticably to those of us who sail upwind in winds of force 6 and
greater and have been spoiled by boats that do this well...

I doubt that there are any cruisers, who will move anything because of a
new 44 lbs weight in their stern.
...

6) Exposed to elements, part failures, eg oars and vanes, common.

Is not true for the good ones. I would dare to make a bet that a proper
windvane, say Windpilot, will outlast almost any electronic pilot.

I've watched 5 "classes" come through the Pacific milk run and vane
failure is pretty common, but you don't need to find an EE to fix it...



Fast boats will put more strain on the gear and should expect greater
failure rates.

The same applies to electronic gear.

Not really. A well designed rudder will tend to keep steering loads
light at the quadrant or tiller even at high speeds which is all the AP
will feel.

I would not recommend windvanes with their own steering rudders, as the
boats own rudder is superior to that and the idea of having the rudder
of the windpilot as an emergency back up, is only sales propaganda. In
most cases where you loose your rudder you will loose the windvane
rudder as well.

...

12) Look industrial.

You may keep your opinion on the looks.

Sorry, I listed looks in both categories. The OP says he like them so
they would be a benefit for him.

No reason to apologice, I think you may have any opinion about the looks
and you can change them at your whim.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

...

-- Tom.