Yesterday; closing up the boat. Talking over the season with the other
victims { oops, I mean sailors of sailboats } ..

Anyway, after we got done talking about the rain in May and June ; the
heat of July and August; the ripoff marina's we visited;

the beautiful anchorages we found, the fog, the wind, ............. we
started on the crew. Or, lack there of.

Then we all walked over to the boat/sailboat with the wind-vane. "Sure does
look cool", "kinda says I am going solo and my windvane is steering". said
one of the boat owners.

Sailboats with wind-vanes look like boats that have been somewhere. They
have that something about them that sets them apart from the sailboats that
go out for a day sail. But what about the wind-vane? Should I get one?
Would it be practical for cruising up and down the coast of New England?
Huum. Sure would be better than the blue bungy-cord self steering device I
use now.

We got to talking ... "I should get one of these" said the red hulled
sailor. "But what about the cost" said the blue hulled sailor.

"Probably be able to find one cheap on ebay" said the 26' boat owner as
"she" kept working away.

"Ya think so"? said I. "Sure, look at all the ya-hoos around here who talk
about going to the Caribbean or somewhere else and never get further than
Cape Ann" she said.

"Why don't you look on the net, see what you can find, get an idea of price,
and then next time your here we can talk wind-vanes" the 26' owner said.

So .. what do you all think? Any wind-vane owners out there? Do you use
yours much? Are they a good addition? What about second hand? What brand
is the best? Do they need to be sized for the boat? Will they work with a
tillar?

Lots and lots of questions.

All answers will be printed, and passed on to the owners of a red boat, blue
boat, 26' boat, two guys looking for a boat, one motor boat,
...........................................

Gotta have a wind-vane if your going to look like the boat that is going to
Antigua. Even if the red boat owner tells me the boat going to Antigua has
been going to Antigua for ten years!

In iU5Wg.1711$ms1.851@trndny05 "Benning Wentworth" writes:

Yesterday; closing up the boat. Talking over the season with the other
victims { oops, I mean sailors of sailboats } ..

Anyway, after we got done talking about the rain in May and June ; the
heat of July and August; the ripoff marina's we visited;

the beautiful anchorages we found, the fog, the wind, ............. we
started on the crew. Or, lack there of.

Then we all walked over to the boat/sailboat with the wind-vane. "Sure does
look cool", "kinda says I am going solo and my windvane is steering". said
one of the boat owners.

Sailboats with wind-vanes look like boats that have been somewhere. They
have that something about them that sets them apart from the sailboats that
go out for a day sail. But what about the wind-vane? Should I get one?
Would it be practical for cruising up and down the coast of New England?
Huum. Sure would be better than the blue bungy-cord self steering device I
use now.

We got to talking ... "I should get one of these" said the red hulled
sailor. "But what about the cost" said the blue hulled sailor.

"Probably be able to find one cheap on ebay" said the 26' boat owner as
"she" kept working away.

"Ya think so"? said I. "Sure, look at all the ya-hoos around here who talk
about going to the Caribbean or somewhere else and never get further than
Cape Ann" she said.

"Why don't you look on the net, see what you can find, get an idea of price,
and then next time your here we can talk wind-vanes" the 26' owner said.

So .. what do you all think? Any wind-vane owners out there? Do you use
yours much? Are they a good addition? What about second hand? What brand
is the best? Do they need to be sized for the boat? Will they work with a
tillar?

Lots and lots of questions.

All answers will be printed, and passed on to the owners of a red boat, blue
boat, 26' boat, two guys looking for a boat, one motor boat,
..........................................

Gotta have a wind-vane if your going to look like the boat that is going to
Antigua. Even if the red boat owner tells me the boat going to Antigua has
been going to Antigua for ten years!

I bought a Windpilot windvane some years ago. I made some marketing
research, visited boat shows, discussed with the makers and wendors,
actually installed one in a friend's boat and sailed a couple of days
with him after it was installed. I bought my several years after this
experience.

So why did it take so long to make up my mind. First reason was perhaps
that the shock cord did a decent job steering the boat on the beat and
the electronic tiller pilot was reasonable in anything but heavy weather
and secondly a good windvane would cost about ten low end tiller pilots.

So what was different after I got the windvane? The first thing you
notice, is that it is working SILENT. I have used for years a slogan:
The engineers can do anything, but nothing silent. My tillepilot
Autohelm ST4000 is not the really noicy type, but no squacing anymore.

The second difference was apparent when the wind picked up and there was
some confused seas. When the conditions became demanding, the windvane
was more and more superior to the tillerpilot. I promise you, I know how
to use the tillerpilot, this is my sixth and I have had ond vor some 20
years, the last two ones of the same make have been with me for some 10
years, so I amu sure I have learned most of the tricks of how to use
one.

I am sailing in the Baltic, where we most of the time cruising is day
sailing from port to port from an island to another, with anchoring from
the rear with the pow tied to some pines or rocks on the shore. Some
trips go overnight, but we do cross the Baltic in one or two nights, but
can stay out for perhaps four days. So this is not what you really call
blue water cruising, where you stay out for a couple of weeks. My vife
was a bit hesitant for us to keeps a watch alone because she did not
have all that confidence in the autopilot. She knew how to use it, but
now she does not have any objections for even multiple nights crossings
as she is confident the windvane will steer the boat whatever the
weather is throwing at us.

We have the tillerpilot, it is used when we are leawing the harbour and
coming and and while motoring, but when we get underway, the windvane
takes over. Remember it is silent and it does not use any electricity.
Moderate heavy reach and run caused battery drain of some 4 to 6
amperes. With the windwane our Aerogen 4 is producing more electricity
than the navigation instrumentrs and cooler and lights consume.

If we are sailing in some narrow channels, there are many of them in the
Finnish and Swedish archipelago, where the islands and high trees are
affecting the wind, the windvane is not a good servant, as you have to
adjust it frequently, but as soon as there is some space around you, it
is doing its job properly.

After the first season with the windvane, my vife asked: Why did you not
by this earlier, what took you so long to make up your mind.

You can get plenty of information of all makes of windvanes:

http://www.windpilot.com/

You can download Peter Foerthmann's book Selfsteering under Sail.

I recommend that for you to read, even if you thing you would buy
another make.

If you buy a windvane, buy a good one, it will last practically for
ever. The good ones will do their job day in day out and becayse this is
a safety factor as well do not go for the good one.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Lauri ,, I looked up the book ... what a great find! The whole book is
FREE!

Good reading .........................

I still have much more to learn. But ??? Maybe ????

==========

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In iU5Wg.1711$ms1.851@trndny05 "Benning Wentworth"
writes:

Yesterday; closing up the boat. Talking over the season with the other
victims { oops, I mean sailors of sailboats } ..

Anyway, after we got done talking about the rain in May and June ; the
heat of July and August; the ripoff marina's we visited;

the beautiful anchorages we found, the fog, the wind, ............. we
started on the crew. Or, lack there of.

Then we all walked over to the boat/sailboat with the wind-vane. "Sure
does
look cool", "kinda says I am going solo and my windvane is steering".
said
one of the boat owners.

Sailboats with wind-vanes look like boats that have been somewhere. They
have that something about them that sets them apart from the sailboats
that
go out for a day sail. But what about the wind-vane? Should I get one?
Would it be practical for cruising up and down the coast of New England?
Huum. Sure would be better than the blue bungy-cord self steering device
I
use now.

We got to talking ... "I should get one of these" said the red hulled
sailor. "But what about the cost" said the blue hulled sailor.

"Probably be able to find one cheap on ebay" said the 26' boat owner as
"she" kept working away.

"Ya think so"? said I. "Sure, look at all the ya-hoos around here who
talk
about going to the Caribbean or somewhere else and never get further than
Cape Ann" she said.

"Why don't you look on the net, see what you can find, get an idea of
price,
and then next time your here we can talk wind-vanes" the 26' owner said.

So .. what do you all think? Any wind-vane owners out there? Do you use
yours much? Are they a good addition? What about second hand? What
brand
is the best? Do they need to be sized for the boat? Will they work with
a
tillar?

Lots and lots of questions.

All answers will be printed, and passed on to the owners of a red boat,
blue
boat, 26' boat, two guys looking for a boat, one motor boat,
..........................................

Gotta have a wind-vane if your going to look like the boat that is going
to
Antigua. Even if the red boat owner tells me the boat going to Antigua
has
been going to Antigua for ten years!

I bought a Windpilot windvane some years ago. I made some marketing
research, visited boat shows, discussed with the makers and wendors,
actually installed one in a friend's boat and sailed a couple of days
with him after it was installed. I bought my several years after this
experience.

So why did it take so long to make up my mind. First reason was perhaps
that the shock cord did a decent job steering the boat on the beat and
the electronic tiller pilot was reasonable in anything but heavy weather
and secondly a good windvane would cost about ten low end tiller pilots.

So what was different after I got the windvane? The first thing you
notice, is that it is working SILENT. I have used for years a slogan:
The engineers can do anything, but nothing silent. My tillepilot
Autohelm ST4000 is not the really noicy type, but no squacing anymore.

The second difference was apparent when the wind picked up and there was
some confused seas. When the conditions became demanding, the windvane
was more and more superior to the tillerpilot. I promise you, I know how
to use the tillerpilot, this is my sixth and I have had ond vor some 20
years, the last two ones of the same make have been with me for some 10
years, so I amu sure I have learned most of the tricks of how to use
one.

I am sailing in the Baltic, where we most of the time cruising is day
sailing from port to port from an island to another, with anchoring from
the rear with the pow tied to some pines or rocks on the shore. Some
trips go overnight, but we do cross the Baltic in one or two nights, but
can stay out for perhaps four days. So this is not what you really call
blue water cruising, where you stay out for a couple of weeks. My vife
was a bit hesitant for us to keeps a watch alone because she did not
have all that confidence in the autopilot. She knew how to use it, but
now she does not have any objections for even multiple nights crossings
as she is confident the windvane will steer the boat whatever the
weather is throwing at us.

We have the tillerpilot, it is used when we are leawing the harbour and
coming and and while motoring, but when we get underway, the windvane
takes over. Remember it is silent and it does not use any electricity.
Moderate heavy reach and run caused battery drain of some 4 to 6
amperes. With the windwane our Aerogen 4 is producing more electricity
than the navigation instrumentrs and cooler and lights consume.

If we are sailing in some narrow channels, there are many of them in the
Finnish and Swedish archipelago, where the islands and high trees are
affecting the wind, the windvane is not a good servant, as you have to
adjust it frequently, but as soon as there is some space around you, it
is doing its job properly.

After the first season with the windvane, my vife asked: Why did you not
by this earlier, what took you so long to make up your mind.

You can get plenty of information of all makes of windvanes:

http://www.windpilot.com/

You can download Peter Foerthmann's book Selfsteering under Sail.

I recommend that for you to read, even if you thing you would buy
another make.

If you buy a windvane, buy a good one, it will last practically for
ever. The good ones will do their job day in day out and becayse this is
a safety factor as well do not go for the good one.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Benning,

Mine is 25 years old, home made by the guy that finished the inside of
the boat. It is the "obsolete" axillary rudder with trim tab type.

I can only vouch for it. But IT is wonderful.

My advice? Get one. You have to figure out the type. I'll be
interested in other peoples comments as someday mine will break and I'll
have to replace it. But replace it I will.

FWIW, the axillary rudder gives you a spare rudder to steer by, should
anything happen to your main. It strikes me the single disadvantage of
the aux rudder is that it makes backing difficult.

Howard

Benning Wentworth wrote:
Yesterday; closing up the boat. Talking over the season with the other
victims { oops, I mean sailors of sailboats } ..

Anyway, after we got done talking about the rain in May and June ; the
heat of July and August; the ripoff marina's we visited;

the beautiful anchorages we found, the fog, the wind, ............. we
started on the crew. Or, lack there of.

Then we all walked over to the boat/sailboat with the wind-vane. "Sure does
look cool", "kinda says I am going solo and my windvane is steering". said
one of the boat owners.

Sailboats with wind-vanes look like boats that have been somewhere. They
have that something about them that sets them apart from the sailboats that
go out for a day sail. But what about the wind-vane? Should I get one?
Would it be practical for cruising up and down the coast of New England?
Huum. Sure would be better than the blue bungy-cord self steering device I
use now.

We got to talking ... "I should get one of these" said the red hulled
sailor. "But what about the cost" said the blue hulled sailor.

"Probably be able to find one cheap on ebay" said the 26' boat owner as
"she" kept working away.

"Ya think so"? said I. "Sure, look at all the ya-hoos around here who talk
about going to the Caribbean or somewhere else and never get further than
Cape Ann" she said.

"Why don't you look on the net, see what you can find, get an idea of price,
and then next time your here we can talk wind-vanes" the 26' owner said.

So .. what do you all think? Any wind-vane owners out there? Do you use
yours much? Are they a good addition? What about second hand? What brand
is the best? Do they need to be sized for the boat? Will they work with a
tillar?

Lots and lots of questions.

All answers will be printed, and passed on to the owners of a red boat, blue
boat, 26' boat, two guys looking for a boat, one motor boat,
..........................................

Gotta have a wind-vane if your going to look like the boat that is going to
Antigua. Even if the red boat owner tells me the boat going to Antigua has
been going to Antigua for ten years!

I've used wind vanes on passages and agree that they are very good
things. I've even considered putting one on my catamaran which has
carried me many thousands of off shore miles. However, I believe that
the costs associated with vanes are too high compared to the benefits
on my boat. Each case will be different, but here is my thinking on
this for my boat:

I. Benefits:
1) wind/water powered, works even if engine and electrical fail.
2) simple can be fixed in remote locals.
3) power savings allow for greater use of electronic nav aids like
RADAR.
4) silent.
5) amusing.
6) looks salty.

II. Costs:
1) very expensive compared to electronic self steering unless home
built.
2) Adds a lot of weight to the end of the boat reducing available
payload, increasing ptiching moment and increasing drag. Speed and
seakeeping costs are larger on total and percantage basis as boats get
lighter and faster.
3) Add wind and water drag. Drag increases greatly as boat velocity
increases so fast boats pay more than slow ones here, too.
4) Does not function in calms.
5) Functions poorly or even dangerously when boat speed approaches
wind speed. Again, a problem only for fast boats.
6) Exposed to elements, part failures, eg oars and vanes, common.
Fast boats will put more strain on the gear and should expect greater
failure rates.
7) Increased dock fees based on LOA.
8) Complicates davit arrangements
9) May make boat more difficult to manuver esp. in reverse.
10) Setting and retrieving oar or rudder can be difficult.
11) Does not steer a compass course, makes DR much more diffiuclt.
12) Look industrial.

-- Tom.

In .com " writes:

I've used wind vanes on passages and agree that they are very good
things. I've even considered putting one on my catamaran which has
carried me many thousands of off shore miles. However, I believe that
the costs associated with vanes are too high compared to the benefits
on my boat. Each case will be different, but here is my thinking on
this for my boat:

Because it is different for different boats, it is perhaps necessary to
bring some other angles into this.

I. Benefits:
1) wind/water powered, works even if engine and electrical fail.

If you have a "servo-pendulum" windvane, where the boat speed is giving
the mechanical power to steer the boat is is superior to cheap
tillerpilots, as the boat speed will determine the speed and power of
rudder action, as the cheap tillerpilots have electric motor of single
speed.

2) simple can be fixed in remote locals.

Tolerates better water than electronic gears, failure rates lover. Thus
more reliable.

3) power savings allow for greater use of electronic nav aids like
RADAR.
4) silent.
5) amusing.
6) looks salty.

II. Costs:
1) very expensive compared to electronic self steering unless home
built.

Expensive compared to cheap electronics, but one should not compare the
price of a state of the art windvane to the cheapest electronic pilots.

2) Adds a lot of weight to the end of the boat reducing available
payload, increasing ptiching moment and increasing drag. Speed and
seakeeping costs are larger on total and percantage basis as boats get
lighter and faster.

Windpilot Pacific (boats from 30 to 65 feet) weights 44 lbs (20 kg), I
would not call this a lot. I am positive that in a 40 foor boat you can
not see or feel the difference in pitching.

3) Add wind and water drag. Drag increases greatly as boat velocity
increases so fast boats pay more than slow ones here, too.

Applies only for multihulls and ULDB boats, not on the majority of
cruising boats.

4) Does not function in calms.

I have not seen a sailing boat moving in calm. If you are motoring in
calm you can use the tiller pilot. If there is enough wind to move the
boat for some 3 knots, there is enough wind to steer with the Windpilot.

5) Functions poorly or even dangerously when boat speed approaches
wind speed. Again, a problem only for fast boats.

Racing multihuls and ULDB:s, not ordinary cruising boats.

6) Exposed to elements, part failures, eg oars and vanes, common.

Is not true for the good ones. I would dare to make a bet that a proper
windvane, say Windpilot, will outlast almost any electronic pilot.

Fast boats will put more strain on the gear and should expect greater
failure rates.

The same applies to electronic gear.

7) Increased dock fees based on LOA.

Not true for Windpilot Pacific. When you turn the oar up, it will be
inside the stern level. I would not recommed the windvanes with steering
rudders, as they are more vulnerable in the stern. Some makes are taking
much more space behind the boat, avoid them (Monitor, Aries etc.)

8) Complicates davit arrangements

Some of the complications can be avoided by crafty plannind.

9) May make boat more difficult to manuver esp. in reverse.

Do not buy one with own steering rudder, because it is a nuisance when
manouvering.

10) Setting and retrieving oar or rudder can be difficult.

Depends on the make. Why to buy one where this is true. In Windpilot
Pacific it is very easy, you just let it fall into the sea and you pull
it up by a piece of string.

11) Does not steer a compass course, makes DR much more diffiuclt.

I do not know why you should steer a sailboat with a windvane to a
compas course, but if you really need to do it, you can take the
smallest and cheapest autopilot, and let it steer you servo-pendulum
windvane instead of the wind. By the way, I do not see the point of
this, as the sailing boat does not sail by itself to a compas course
accurate enough for DR.

12) Look industrial.

You may keep your opinion on the looks.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

-- Tom.

You're partial to Windpilot. Any interest (moneywise) in that company? How
would you mount a windpilot when there is an outboard in the middle of the
stern?
Gordon
"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In .com
" writes:

I've used wind vanes on passages and agree that they are very good
things. I've even considered putting one on my catamaran which has
carried me many thousands of off shore miles. However, I believe that
the costs associated with vanes are too high compared to the benefits
on my boat. Each case will be different, but here is my thinking on
this for my boat:

Because it is different for different boats, it is perhaps necessary to
bring some other angles into this.

I. Benefits:
1) wind/water powered, works even if engine and electrical fail.

If you have a "servo-pendulum" windvane, where the boat speed is giving
the mechanical power to steer the boat is is superior to cheap
tillerpilots, as the boat speed will determine the speed and power of
rudder action, as the cheap tillerpilots have electric motor of single
speed.

2) simple can be fixed in remote locals.

Tolerates better water than electronic gears, failure rates lover. Thus
more reliable.

3) power savings allow for greater use of electronic nav aids like
RADAR.
4) silent.
5) amusing.
6) looks salty.

II. Costs:
1) very expensive compared to electronic self steering unless home
built.

Expensive compared to cheap electronics, but one should not compare the
price of a state of the art windvane to the cheapest electronic pilots.

2) Adds a lot of weight to the end of the boat reducing available
payload, increasing ptiching moment and increasing drag. Speed and
seakeeping costs are larger on total and percantage basis as boats get
lighter and faster.

Windpilot Pacific (boats from 30 to 65 feet) weights 44 lbs (20 kg), I
would not call this a lot. I am positive that in a 40 foor boat you can
not see or feel the difference in pitching.

3) Add wind and water drag. Drag increases greatly as boat velocity
increases so fast boats pay more than slow ones here, too.

Applies only for multihulls and ULDB boats, not on the majority of
cruising boats.

4) Does not function in calms.

I have not seen a sailing boat moving in calm. If you are motoring in
calm you can use the tiller pilot. If there is enough wind to move the
boat for some 3 knots, there is enough wind to steer with the Windpilot.

5) Functions poorly or even dangerously when boat speed approaches
wind speed. Again, a problem only for fast boats.

Racing multihuls and ULDB:s, not ordinary cruising boats.

6) Exposed to elements, part failures, eg oars and vanes, common.

Is not true for the good ones. I would dare to make a bet that a proper
windvane, say Windpilot, will outlast almost any electronic pilot.

Fast boats will put more strain on the gear and should expect greater
failure rates.

The same applies to electronic gear.

7) Increased dock fees based on LOA.

Not true for Windpilot Pacific. When you turn the oar up, it will be
inside the stern level. I would not recommed the windvanes with steering
rudders, as they are more vulnerable in the stern. Some makes are taking
much more space behind the boat, avoid them (Monitor, Aries etc.)

8) Complicates davit arrangements

Some of the complications can be avoided by crafty plannind.

9) May make boat more difficult to manuver esp. in reverse.

Do not buy one with own steering rudder, because it is a nuisance when
manouvering.

10) Setting and retrieving oar or rudder can be difficult.

Depends on the make. Why to buy one where this is true. In Windpilot
Pacific it is very easy, you just let it fall into the sea and you pull
it up by a piece of string.

11) Does not steer a compass course, makes DR much more diffiuclt.

I do not know why you should steer a sailboat with a windvane to a
compas course, but if you really need to do it, you can take the
smallest and cheapest autopilot, and let it steer you servo-pendulum
windvane instead of the wind. By the way, I do not see the point of
this, as the sailing boat does not sail by itself to a compas course
accurate enough for DR.

12) Look industrial.

You may keep your opinion on the looks.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

-- Tom.

On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:06:46 -0700, "Gordon"
wrote:

How
would you mount a windpilot when there is an outboard in the middle of the
stern?

Not too many off shore cruising boats have that issue. Use a tiller
pilot instead.

In Wayne.B writes:

On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:06:46 -0700, "Gordon"
wrote:

How
would you mount a windpilot when there is an outboard in the middle of the
stern?

Not too many off shore cruising boats have that issue. Use a tiller
pilot instead.

If he has the problem, he expects everybody to buy a windvane
accomodating his problem.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

In "Gordon" writes:

You're partial to Windpilot.

I made some five years of research before I bought my windvane,
initially I was interested in Aries and Monitor, but found out that
Windpilot is (at least min my case) the better choice.

Any interest (moneywise) in that company?

This is insulting. The only interest I have in the company, that I have
bought one of their pilots.

How would you mount a windpilot when there is an outboard in the middle
of the stern?

If you bother to check out their web-side you will find out that they
have a multitude of bracket arrangements, allowing for canoe sterns,
outside hanging rudders, so you can use your imagination in applying
them.

Beside studying some five years the available windvanes, I have been
following (with lesser intensity) the development of the field since the
late seventies and can say, that the big difference between say Aries,
Monitor and Windpilot is, that the maker of Aries lost faith in the
windvane and the development was stopped, Monitor picked the idea and
made it in stainles steel, but Peter Foerthman has made three different
generations of windvanes, starting from new when he had learned enough
of the previous models.

I have been in Cowes and met the makers of Aries and installed it in a
friends boat, I have met the maker of Aries (by the way he is Swedish,
and I cruise in the waters where he started sailing, so we have had long
discussions about the windvanes during while we met), I have discussed
with the developer of Windpilot many times, so I have some perspective
of the situation and the gear. One sick feature here is, that all the
wendors badmouth the competition and it seems that all of them are
scared of Windpilot. The tone of your mail suggest me, that you have
some interest in some of the companies.

By the way, read Foerthmans book, it is free in the net. I dare to
promise you, that after reading it, you have to admit that he knows his
stuff. Of course I do not expect you to admit it in public.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Gordon
"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In .com
" writes:

I've used wind vanes on passages and agree that they are very good
things. I've even considered putting one on my catamaran which has
carried me many thousands of off shore miles. However, I believe that
the costs associated with vanes are too high compared to the benefits
on my boat. Each case will be different, but here is my thinking on
this for my boat:

Because it is different for different boats, it is perhaps necessary to
bring some other angles into this.

I. Benefits:
1) wind/water powered, works even if engine and electrical fail.

If you have a "servo-pendulum" windvane, where the boat speed is giving
the mechanical power to steer the boat is is superior to cheap
tillerpilots, as the boat speed will determine the speed and power of
rudder action, as the cheap tillerpilots have electric motor of single
speed.

2) simple can be fixed in remote locals.

Tolerates better water than electronic gears, failure rates lover. Thus
more reliable.

3) power savings allow for greater use of electronic nav aids like
RADAR.
4) silent.
5) amusing.
6) looks salty.

II. Costs:
1) very expensive compared to electronic self steering unless home
built.

Expensive compared to cheap electronics, but one should not compare the
price of a state of the art windvane to the cheapest electronic pilots.

2) Adds a lot of weight to the end of the boat reducing available
payload, increasing ptiching moment and increasing drag. Speed and
seakeeping costs are larger on total and percantage basis as boats get
lighter and faster.

Windpilot Pacific (boats from 30 to 65 feet) weights 44 lbs (20 kg), I
would not call this a lot. I am positive that in a 40 foor boat you can
not see or feel the difference in pitching.

3) Add wind and water drag. Drag increases greatly as boat velocity
increases so fast boats pay more than slow ones here, too.

Applies only for multihulls and ULDB boats, not on the majority of
cruising boats.

4) Does not function in calms.

I have not seen a sailing boat moving in calm. If you are motoring in
calm you can use the tiller pilot. If there is enough wind to move the
boat for some 3 knots, there is enough wind to steer with the Windpilot.

5) Functions poorly or even dangerously when boat speed approaches
wind speed. Again, a problem only for fast boats.

Racing multihuls and ULDB:s, not ordinary cruising boats.

6) Exposed to elements, part failures, eg oars and vanes, common.

Is not true for the good ones. I would dare to make a bet that a proper
windvane, say Windpilot, will outlast almost any electronic pilot.

Fast boats will put more strain on the gear and should expect greater
failure rates.

The same applies to electronic gear.

7) Increased dock fees based on LOA.

Not true for Windpilot Pacific. When you turn the oar up, it will be
inside the stern level. I would not recommed the windvanes with steering
rudders, as they are more vulnerable in the stern. Some makes are taking
much more space behind the boat, avoid them (Monitor, Aries etc.)

8) Complicates davit arrangements

Some of the complications can be avoided by crafty plannind.

9) May make boat more difficult to manuver esp. in reverse.

Do not buy one with own steering rudder, because it is a nuisance when
manouvering.

10) Setting and retrieving oar or rudder can be difficult.

Depends on the make. Why to buy one where this is true. In Windpilot
Pacific it is very easy, you just let it fall into the sea and you pull
it up by a piece of string.

11) Does not steer a compass course, makes DR much more diffiuclt.

I do not know why you should steer a sailboat with a windvane to a
compas course, but if you really need to do it, you can take the
smallest and cheapest autopilot, and let it steer you servo-pendulum
windvane instead of the wind. By the way, I do not see the point of
this, as the sailing boat does not sail by itself to a compas course
accurate enough for DR.

12) Look industrial.

You may keep your opinion on the looks.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

-- Tom.