wrote

At our club when everyone else is heeling with the rub rail close to
the water and getting their ears wet, our friend in his E32 sails
along with minimum listing of 15 to 20 degrees.


I find that a extremely interesting comment. I never race so I
haven't been able to compare the E32 to other boats. My impression is
that the E32 is not a very stiff boat due to heavy construction and a
lot of volume in the keel (a heritage from the keel / centerboard
original design) that reduces its effectiveness. 20 degree heel with
130% Genoa is reached at lower wind speeds than what I would expect
from my long ago yacht designing days.

I'm usually heeled more than other boats but I tend to be a hard
driver and the boat goes very well at 30 degrees. Displacement alone
is one contributor to stiffness so the E32 might compare well in heel
to a very light boat of the same sail area even though the more modern
one was wider and stiffer.

It's not a fast boat by racing standards but that just means it's 5%
slower in a lot of conditions than a racing type. At the same time,
it's 5% faster than a lot of traditional cruisers of the same motion
comfort and lack of pounding as they go to windward.

Good compromise if you ask me.

--

Roger Long

I have just checked the RYC spring series result and the Endeavour is listed
as 11 out of 13 racing sailboat the last one being a C&C.
Not bad for a cruising design boat. The Endeavour we have at our club has a
solid keel not a swing keel.


"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
wrote

At our club when everyone else is heeling with the rub rail close to the
water and getting their ears wet, our friend in his E32 sails along with
minimum listing of 15 to 20 degrees.


I find that a extremely interesting comment. I never race so I haven't
been able to compare the E32 to other boats. My impression is that the
E32 is not a very stiff boat due to heavy construction and a lot of volume
in the keel (a heritage from the keel / centerboard original design) that
reduces its effectiveness. 20 degree heel with 130% Genoa is reached at
lower wind speeds than what I would expect from my long ago yacht
designing days.

I'm usually heeled more than other boats but I tend to be a hard driver
and the boat goes very well at 30 degrees. Displacement alone is one
contributor to stiffness so the E32 might compare well in heel to a very
light boat of the same sail area even though the more modern one was wider
and stiffer.

It's not a fast boat by racing standards but that just means it's 5%
slower in a lot of conditions than a racing type. At the same time, it's
5% faster than a lot of traditional cruisers of the same motion comfort
and lack of pounding as they go to windward.

Good compromise if you ask me.

--

Roger Long

Mine (1980 build) is a solid keel as well. When they went to the
solid keel they just added a few inches to the draft.

I've heard, but not been able to substantiate, that similar boats
offered in both versions turned up very little difference in windward
performance. As a former sailboat designer, I find it quite plausible
however. In theory, the long centerboard is a much more efficient foil
but getting the high aspect ratio requires exposing a lot of
centerboard slot. Since a boat working to windward goes at an angle
through the water, the slot actually created quite a bit of drag.
Since the centerboards were flat steel plate instead of shaped foils,
the end result was a lot of maintenance, complication, and noise for
not much gain over simply making the keel about six inches deeper.

The keel on the E32 is quite thick which hurts her stability as I
noted above. A nice byproduct though is a huge bilge sump. My
fingers can just barely reach the bottom of it when lying on the cabin
sole and it is wide enough to put batteries or an additional fuel tank
down there. Having a lot of deep bilge volume is a good thing if you
ever take a sea and get a lot of water in the boat. It quickly drains
down low where it doesn't harm the stability and doesn't wash up and
down inside the cabin liner working it's way into everything.

11 out of 13 eh? That's better than I would have expected but in line
with my thinking that she falls right between the cruisers and racers
with as much comfort as cruisers the same size.

After two years, I love this boat. If anything happened to her, I'd go
looking for another one tomorrow.

--

Roger Long



wrote in message
...
I have just checked the RYC spring series result and the Endeavour is
listed as 11 out of 13 racing sailboat the last one being a C&C.
Not bad for a cruising design boat. The Endeavour we have at our
club has a solid keel not a swing keel.


"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
wrote

At our club when everyone else is heeling with the rub rail close
to the water and getting their ears wet, our friend in his E32
sails along with minimum listing of 15 to 20 degrees.


I find that a extremely interesting comment. I never race so I
haven't been able to compare the E32 to other boats. My impression
is that the E32 is not a very stiff boat due to heavy construction
and a lot of volume in the keel (a heritage from the keel /
centerboard original design) that reduces its effectiveness. 20
degree heel with 130% Genoa is reached at lower wind speeds than
what I would expect from my long ago yacht designing days.

I'm usually heeled more than other boats but I tend to be a hard
driver and the boat goes very well at 30 degrees. Displacement
alone is one contributor to stiffness so the E32 might compare well
in heel to a very light boat of the same sail area even though the
more modern one was wider and stiffer.

It's not a fast boat by racing standards but that just means it's
5% slower in a lot of conditions than a racing type. At the same
time, it's 5% faster than a lot of traditional cruisers of the same
motion comfort and lack of pounding as they go to windward.

Good compromise if you ask me.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
"Gary" wrote


In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel,
spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific
Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise.



That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody.

If you go to:

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

You can look at the numbers of hundreds of boats. I compared your E 32
with my Truant 33 and they are remarkably similar.

Gary

On 4 Aug 2006 22:50:44 -0700, "Praxi" wrote:

Hi all,

I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between
30-35".

I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and
then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live
there for a week or so.

Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay
away from?

Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look
for?

I suggest you charter boats for a few trips - you can try a variety of
boats in various sizes to see what works best for you.



--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

What's a Truant 33? I never heard of one and Google doesn't turn
anything up.

--

Roger Long



"Gary" wrote in message
news:Ze9Bg.326088$IK3.279016@pd7tw1no...
Roger Long wrote:
"Gary" wrote


In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel,
spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific
Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise.



That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody.

If you go to:

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

You can look at the numbers of hundreds of boats. I compared your E
32 with my Truant 33 and they are remarkably similar.

Gary

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 16:26:25 -0700, Peter Bennett
wrote:

I suggest you charter boats for a few trips - you can try a variety of
boats in various sizes to see what works best for you.

And *that* is really good advice.

You really don't know what is important to you on a boat until you've
lived with it for awhile.

Was aboard a Hans Christian 43 the other day. Big, heavy (40000#), full
keel, all teak and holley, leather upholstery, yada yada yada.
With opulence like that, who cares about speed!
G
"Gary" wrote in message
news:%H6Bg.321315$Mn5.165870@pd7tw3no...
wrote:
Years ago, according to Sailing magazine testing -- the fastest sailboat
to
claw off a coast line (getting away from an rough and threatening coast
line) is a sloop rig with a fin keel.

As for the full keel and attached rudder I agreed that it will not act
as a
lobster pot catcher the way the fin keel and suspended rudder are doing.
They only draw back I see is it may not turn as fast as the fin keel.
Nevertheless for long passage making it is still well preferred.
Won't turn as fast;
Won't sail as fast;
More hull to sand and paint;
Much heavier displacement;
Wetter ride in heavy weather; and
Much heavier gear (more expensive) for a given size boat.

That being said, the Folkboat and its derivatives (Contessa 26,
Vancouver 26, Marie Holm) are some of the most attractive and seaworthy
boats around.

Gary




"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message
news:442Bg.60$AF1.49@trndny03...

Roger Long wrote:
What's a Truant 33? I never heard of one and Google doesn't turn
anything up.

Same as a Saturna 33. Bill Garden designed pilothouse.

You can buy boats in this size range from about $5000 to $300,000, did you
have a budget in mind? Where will you sail? Small lake, big lake, ocean?
Do you need dockage and or winter storage, have you priced these? There is
a serviceable, rugged 22' Hurley F/S at Ithaca, NY, for $2000, winter
storage is $900.
Lee Haefele
"Praxi" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between
30-35".

I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and
then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live
there for a week or so.

Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay
away from?

Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look
for?

Thank you,