I've only caught one pot with my E 32. That was one with a plastic
jug for a buoy that had been punctured and dragged beneath the surface
where it tangled up in a bunch of others so the line was stretched out
of sight.

I'm sure I'll catch another one someday but I now have a hook knife
and the handling, maneuverability, and performance are features I'd
rather have than being able to blindly plow through pots.

--

Roger Long



wrote in message
...
Years ago, according to Sailing magazine testing -- the fastest
sailboat to claw off a coast line (getting away from an rough and
threatening coast line) is a sloop rig with a fin keel.

As for the full keel and attached rudder I agreed that it will not
act as a lobster pot catcher the way the fin keel and suspended
rudder are doing. They only draw back I see is it may not turn as
fast as the fin keel. Nevertheless for long passage making it is
still well preferred.




"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message
news:442Bg.60$AF1.49@trndny03...
"sloop rig equipped with a fin keel"

AKA ,,, a lobster pot catcher. I was at the boatyard this week and
there were a whole bunch of fin keel boat on the hard. Everyone
had some damage to the fin, or rudder. The rudder's were not
attached to the keel.


A full keel might not be as fast but it does have some advantages.


================================================== ======
wrote in message
...

Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to
stay
away from?

At this time, the best lead is to learn the ropes.

You can learn a lot by crewing on other people sailboats. By
crewing you will learn what you prefer and what the other boat
owners like.

Most people prefer the sloop rig equipped with a fin keel. Other
people are going for the long keel and the facilities and ease of
handling small sails by having a cutter, yawl or ketch rig.

Today with the advent of the in mast furling main sail and furling
jib a wider stern hull the trend is slowly getting accepted.



"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
On 4 Aug 2006 22:50:44 -0700, "Praxi" wrote:

Hi all,

I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between
30-35".

I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on,
now and
then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and
maybe live
there for a week or so.

Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to
stay
away from?

Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.)
to look
for?

Thank you,


There's a school of thought that says a cheap old sailing dinghy
is a
whole lot cheaper to bang around in, while learning the fine
points.
Going fresh to a 32 ft sailboat can be done no doubt, but not by
most
without a few expensive trips to the bank.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Roger Long wrote:
I've only caught one pot with my E 32. That was one with a plastic
jug for a buoy that had been punctured and dragged beneath the surface
where it tangled up in a bunch of others so the line was stretched out
of sight.

I'm sure I'll catch another one someday but I now have a hook knife
and the handling, maneuverability, and performance are features I'd
rather have than being able to blindly plow through pots.

In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel, spade
rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific Seacraft. I
believe they are a very good compromise.

Furthermore, in my experience with both a fin keeler and full keeled
boat, the snag crab pots and kelp at about the same frequency. That
would be almost every time you run over one. The lobster pot business
is not a good way to choose a hull design.

Hitting logs with a spade rudder, that is a different story........

Gary

"Gary" wrote

In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel,
spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific
Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise.


That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody.

--

Roger Long

At our club when everyone else is heeling with the rub rail close to the
water and getting their ears wet, our friend in his E32 sails along with
minimum listing of 15 to 20 degrees.

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Gary" wrote

In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel, spade
rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific Seacraft. I
believe they are a very good compromise.


That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody.

--

Roger Long

wrote

At our club when everyone else is heeling with the rub rail close to
the water and getting their ears wet, our friend in his E32 sails
along with minimum listing of 15 to 20 degrees.


I find that a extremely interesting comment. I never race so I
haven't been able to compare the E32 to other boats. My impression is
that the E32 is not a very stiff boat due to heavy construction and a
lot of volume in the keel (a heritage from the keel / centerboard
original design) that reduces its effectiveness. 20 degree heel with
130% Genoa is reached at lower wind speeds than what I would expect
from my long ago yacht designing days.

I'm usually heeled more than other boats but I tend to be a hard
driver and the boat goes very well at 30 degrees. Displacement alone
is one contributor to stiffness so the E32 might compare well in heel
to a very light boat of the same sail area even though the more modern
one was wider and stiffer.

It's not a fast boat by racing standards but that just means it's 5%
slower in a lot of conditions than a racing type. At the same time,
it's 5% faster than a lot of traditional cruisers of the same motion
comfort and lack of pounding as they go to windward.

Good compromise if you ask me.

--

Roger Long

I have just checked the RYC spring series result and the Endeavour is listed
as 11 out of 13 racing sailboat the last one being a C&C.
Not bad for a cruising design boat. The Endeavour we have at our club has a
solid keel not a swing keel.


"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
wrote

At our club when everyone else is heeling with the rub rail close to the
water and getting their ears wet, our friend in his E32 sails along with
minimum listing of 15 to 20 degrees.


I find that a extremely interesting comment. I never race so I haven't
been able to compare the E32 to other boats. My impression is that the
E32 is not a very stiff boat due to heavy construction and a lot of volume
in the keel (a heritage from the keel / centerboard original design) that
reduces its effectiveness. 20 degree heel with 130% Genoa is reached at
lower wind speeds than what I would expect from my long ago yacht
designing days.

I'm usually heeled more than other boats but I tend to be a hard driver
and the boat goes very well at 30 degrees. Displacement alone is one
contributor to stiffness so the E32 might compare well in heel to a very
light boat of the same sail area even though the more modern one was wider
and stiffer.

It's not a fast boat by racing standards but that just means it's 5%
slower in a lot of conditions than a racing type. At the same time, it's
5% faster than a lot of traditional cruisers of the same motion comfort
and lack of pounding as they go to windward.

Good compromise if you ask me.

--

Roger Long

Mine (1980 build) is a solid keel as well. When they went to the
solid keel they just added a few inches to the draft.

I've heard, but not been able to substantiate, that similar boats
offered in both versions turned up very little difference in windward
performance. As a former sailboat designer, I find it quite plausible
however. In theory, the long centerboard is a much more efficient foil
but getting the high aspect ratio requires exposing a lot of
centerboard slot. Since a boat working to windward goes at an angle
through the water, the slot actually created quite a bit of drag.
Since the centerboards were flat steel plate instead of shaped foils,
the end result was a lot of maintenance, complication, and noise for
not much gain over simply making the keel about six inches deeper.

The keel on the E32 is quite thick which hurts her stability as I
noted above. A nice byproduct though is a huge bilge sump. My
fingers can just barely reach the bottom of it when lying on the cabin
sole and it is wide enough to put batteries or an additional fuel tank
down there. Having a lot of deep bilge volume is a good thing if you
ever take a sea and get a lot of water in the boat. It quickly drains
down low where it doesn't harm the stability and doesn't wash up and
down inside the cabin liner working it's way into everything.

11 out of 13 eh? That's better than I would have expected but in line
with my thinking that she falls right between the cruisers and racers
with as much comfort as cruisers the same size.

After two years, I love this boat. If anything happened to her, I'd go
looking for another one tomorrow.

--

Roger Long



wrote in message
...
I have just checked the RYC spring series result and the Endeavour is
listed as 11 out of 13 racing sailboat the last one being a C&C.
Not bad for a cruising design boat. The Endeavour we have at our
club has a solid keel not a swing keel.


"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
wrote

At our club when everyone else is heeling with the rub rail close
to the water and getting their ears wet, our friend in his E32
sails along with minimum listing of 15 to 20 degrees.


I find that a extremely interesting comment. I never race so I
haven't been able to compare the E32 to other boats. My impression
is that the E32 is not a very stiff boat due to heavy construction
and a lot of volume in the keel (a heritage from the keel /
centerboard original design) that reduces its effectiveness. 20
degree heel with 130% Genoa is reached at lower wind speeds than
what I would expect from my long ago yacht designing days.

I'm usually heeled more than other boats but I tend to be a hard
driver and the boat goes very well at 30 degrees. Displacement
alone is one contributor to stiffness so the E32 might compare well
in heel to a very light boat of the same sail area even though the
more modern one was wider and stiffer.

It's not a fast boat by racing standards but that just means it's
5% slower in a lot of conditions than a racing type. At the same
time, it's 5% faster than a lot of traditional cruisers of the same
motion comfort and lack of pounding as they go to windward.

Good compromise if you ask me.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
"Gary" wrote

In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel,
spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific
Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise.


That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody.

Modified fin keel which describes my Tayana 42. I'm sold on this as the
best compromise.

Roger Long wrote:
"Gary" wrote


In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel,
spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific
Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise.



That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody.

If you go to:

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

You can look at the numbers of hundreds of boats. I compared your E 32
with my Truant 33 and they are remarkably similar.

Gary

What's a Truant 33? I never heard of one and Google doesn't turn
anything up.

--

Roger Long



"Gary" wrote in message
news:Ze9Bg.326088$IK3.279016@pd7tw1no...
Roger Long wrote:
"Gary" wrote


In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel,
spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific
Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise.



That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody.

If you go to:

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

You can look at the numbers of hundreds of boats. I compared your E
32 with my Truant 33 and they are remarkably similar.

Gary