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#1
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Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
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#3
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Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
-- Roger Long "Wayne.B" wrote Sailing single handed in a strong breeze does not excuse anyone from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities Why is there no comment about being 228 feet long and owned by someone richer than God not excusing an operator from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities? (the radio) could/should have been readily at hand and turned on The radio is a back up. Contact is not necessary for the rules of the road to be in force. Radio break, not all boats have radios, operating a vessel in this situation with the expectation that you don't have to observe the rules of the road unless you get a radio call is neither seamanlike nor responsible. , sail could/should have been shortened to a more managable level, an autopilot could/should be available when single or short handing. Come on, that's like saying all powerboats should be operated slower because it will give everyone more time to react to crossing situations. My vessel was quite managable. It's not that I couldn't get the radio but that it was easier to simply run off. I ended up closer to Ram Island than I would have liked but I still cleared it. You have some dangerous preconceptions. Look, this is not about me. I handled it smoothly and easily. I expect this kind of "blind on autopilot" behavior from fishing vessels. Their crews are dead tired and their world is crumbling around them as they try to keep up with mortgages. I also expect it from large vessels that I selfishly don't want dodging every small yacht among the obstructions of Maine, even if they aren't in the channel. My post was about the fact that a no expense spared vessel, presumably with crew of similar caliber to the paint job, whose Captain and crew had just spent two weeks tied to the dock in Portland's most luxurious spot, could behave this way with no way of assessing skill level, radio functioning (or even existence), etc. aboard my vessel. The rules of the road don't require them to think about these things, they simply require them to punch 2 -3 degrees into the autopilot for five minutes at the appropriate time and then back. There is nothing in the rules of the road that says they don't have to do this unless there is radio contact. If I had been closely obstructed by the shore or had a sheet jammed in a winch, I certainly would have made a radio call. I could have done it but it was easier to just divert it a way that made it obvious I was going to keep clear. I handled it properly and differently than you might have but THAT'S NOT THE DAMN POINT! |
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#4
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 12:57:53 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: The rules of the road don't require them to think about these things, they simply require them to punch 2 -3 degrees into the autopilot for five minutes at the appropriate time and then back. I'm reasonably sure they would have readily done that if you could have made your intentions clear to them. It's entirely possible that they were expecting you to fall off and pass port-to-port since that would be normal in an oncoming situation in the absence of any other information. There is nothing in the rules of the road that says they don't have to do this unless there is radio contact. That's true of course, but if you don't do it, you are assuming at least some of the risk for any confusion that develops. The other issue that I have with your description of events could delicately be described as somewhat attitudinal, particularly with regard to socio-economic status and means of propulsion. There is nothing wrong with money, only with not having it. There is nothing wrong with having an engine on your boat and using it. You need to get over it. After all, you may win the lottery some day and/or come up with the most successful ship design ever dreamed of. Hopefully you'll still talk with us common folk who are down to our last small yacht when that happens. :-) Be safe out there... |
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#5
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
"Wayne.B" wrote
The other issue that I have with your description of events could delicately be described as somewhat attitudinal, particularly with regard to socio-economic status and means of propulsion. So what? My attitude (which is not exactly as you describe since I didn't spend a lifetime around boats and airplanes without some tolerance for people with money) is irrelevant to the outcome if anyone crossing the master of this boat in the future. His attitude however, could have great bearing on the situation. BTW I've been primarily a powerboat designer for most of my career. -- Roger Long |
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#6
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:28:27 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 12:57:53 GMT, "Roger Long" snip There is nothing in the rules of the road that says they don't have to do this unless The other issue that I have with your description of events could delicately be described as somewhat attitudinal, particularly with regard to socio-economic status and means of propulsion. There is nothing wrong with money, only with not having it. Snip So, there I was at the pool at the Hotel/Marina de la Navidad in Barra de Navidad. Did you ever see the old Saturday Night Live skit where Garret Morse hides behind the newspaper when the last other black customer gets off the bus? A hostess comes out, serves drinks, refunds fares, and he sees how the other half lives. That's how it felt. I was hiding behind a book. Anyway, this marina and lagoon have BIG boats. Attessa (225 feet, 5 stories, helicopter on stern) had just came and left. Paul Allen's smallest boat was too big for the marina and was anchored in the lagoon. Attessa: http://yachts.monacoeye.com/yachtsby...attessa01.html Besame: http://www.rexyachts.com/YBobBesame104.pdf Three kinda drunk power boaters and their either wives or nieces from Philadelphia were at the pool drinking $200 bottles of champagne. The only one I can identify was the owner of the 100ish footer "Besame", with a St. Francis YC burgee that had blocked us from the anchorage at Careyes a few days before (not their fault...small anchorage, big boat). They were busy comparing the size of their equipment and saying things like "Sailing is for people who can't afford power boats" and "heck they can't even afford the fuel." Nyuk nyuk nyuk... The most obnoxious was the guy who had the smallest equipment (I mean boat) of course. So, let me add to your statement, there is nothing wrong with money except not having it or ranking people on how much they have. Amazing where a thread on a meeting situation can lead.... |
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#7
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
"Wayne.B" wrote
Sailing single handed in a strong breeze does not excuse anyone from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities Why is there no comment about being 228 feet long and owned by someone richer than God not excusing an operator from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities? (the radio) could/should have been readily at hand and turned on The radio is a back up. Contact is not necessary for the rules of the road to be in force. Radio break, not all boats have radios, operating a vessel in this situation with the expectation that you don't have to observe the rules of the road unless you get a radio call is neither seamanlike nor responsible. , sail could/should have been shortened to a more managable level, an autopilot could/should be available when single or short handing. Come on, that's like saying all powerboats should be operated slower because it will give everyone more time to react to crossing situations. My vessel was quite managable. It's not that I couldn't get the radio but that it was easier to simply run off. I ended up closer to Ram Island than I would have liked but I still cleared it. You have some dangerous preconceptions. Look, this is not about me. I handled it smoothly and easily. I expect this kind of "blind on autopilot" behavior from fishing vessels. Their crews are dead tired and their world is crumbling around them as they try to keep up with mortgages. I also expect it from large vessels that I selfishly don't want dodging every small yacht among the obstructions of Maine, even if they aren't in the channel. My post was about the fact that a no expense spared vessel, presumably with crew of similar caliber to the paint job, whose Captain and crew had just spent two weeks tied to the dock in Portland's most luxurious spot, could behave this way with no way of assessing skill level, radio functioning (or even existence), etc. aboard my vessel. The rules of the road don't require them to think about these things, they simply require them to punch 2 -3 degrees into the autopilot for five minutes at the appropriate time and then back. There is nothing in the rules of the road that says they don't have to do this unless there is radio contact. If I had been closely obstructed by the shore or had a sheet jammed in a winch, I certainly would have made a radio call. I could have done it but it was easier to just divert it a way that made it obvious I was going to keep clear. I handled it properly and differently than you might have but THAT'S NOT THE DAMN POINT! -- Roger Long |
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#8
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Let me start by saying that I am in favor of using the radio
but I can see Roger's point. "Wayne.B" wrote Sailing single handed in a strong breeze does not excuse anyone from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities He didn't abidcate any of his responsibilities, nor do anything unseamanlike. Roger Long wrote: Why is there no comment about being 228 feet long and owned by someone richer than God not excusing an operator from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities? Just because.... maybe it's "Pick On Roger Day" or maybe the secret powerboat cabal is working overtime to prove you're really the one at fault here. (the radio) could/should have been readily at hand and turned on Agreed. The radio is a back up. Hmm, that is an interesting point of view... would you say that out loud in an Admiralty court? ... Contact is not necessary for the rules of the road to be in force. True Radio break, not all boats have radios, True Another issue that nobody has brought up yet is that radio communication often is not fully or clearly understood, leading to a different response than might be desirable. Also, radio communication takes time and when two vessels are on a collision course that can be a very precious commodity. operating a vessel in this situation with the expectation that you don't have to observe the rules of the road unless you get a radio call is neither seamanlike nor responsible. Very true , sail could/should have been shortened to a more managable level, an autopilot could/should be available when single or short handing. Come on, that's like saying all powerboats should be operated slower because it will give everyone more time to react to crossing situations. It's like saying all sailboats should douse sail and start using motors every time any other vessel is anywhere near them. It's like saying stand-on vessels must maintain speed & course even if it puts thme up on the rocks. Why not just make boating illegal. It'd be safer and eliminate a lot of confusion... cheaper too  My vessel was quite managable. It's not that I couldn't get the radio but that it was easier to simply run off. I ended up closer to Ram Island than I would have liked but I still cleared it. And there is certainly some virtue in taking unilateral action, rather than equivocate and say "Gee I should use the radio." But then to some extent, you also forfeit your right to complain about the other guy's lack of obedience to ColRegs. For all you know, that captain may have been watching you... maybe his computerized radar keeping a constant real-time plot of your projected course and CPA... and saying to himself, 'If that guy doesn't either tack or get a header in the next 20 seconds, I've going to turn a few degrees and give him a little more sea room.' Then he saw you alter course, and said to himself 'hmm, he did get a header, I don't have to.' My post was about the fact that a no expense spared vessel, presumably with crew of similar caliber to the paint job, whose Captain and crew had just spent two weeks tied to the dock in Portland's most luxurious spot, could behave this way with no way of assessing skill level, radio functioning (or even existence), etc. aboard my vessel. The rules of the road don't require them to think about these things, they simply require them to punch 2 -3 degrees into the autopilot for five minutes at the appropriate time and then back. Yeah, that would have been nice. FWIW there has been a perceived decline in the professionalism of professional captains along the ICW down here, too. And a lot more weekend warrior jackasses in Sea Rays, too. ... There is nothing in the rules of the road that says they don't have to do this unless there is radio contact. True. But there is no reason for you to raise such a storm of kvetching. You don't know what that captain intended or was about to do. If I had been closely obstructed by the shore or had a sheet jammed in a winch, I certainly would have made a radio call. And others have just been trying to make the point that the radio is often not considered a last resort. ... I could have done it but it was easier to just divert it a way that made it obvious I was going to keep clear. I handled it properly and differently than you might have but THAT'S NOT THE DAMN POINT! Well, for some people it is Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
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