KLC Lewis wrote:
Can we all just agree that EVERY skipper has the duty and obligation to
avoid collisions with other vessels, and to make our intentions known to
other boats on the water?

Now there is a good idea... oddly enough it is mentioned in
ColRegs, too. Make helm corrections early, make them
obvious, so the other vessel doesn't ahve to guess your
intentions.

... Generally speaking, however, powerboats (or
sailboats under power, being the same thing) are much more maneuverable

Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are
a lot more maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have
something to do with it, I'm guessing!

and/or free to take any heading they like, than sailboats. When
singlehanding my ketch, I also use autopilot quite a bit -- nevertheless,
that doesn't relieve me of the obligation to avoid collisions.


Uh-oh, now you're expecting common sense?!?

We've had people walk out on their foredeck and angrily yell
at us to keep out of their way because they were on
autopilot. Haven't had that happen when we were anchored,
but that'll probably occur any day now.

I recently had a shrimp trawler yell at me to get out of his
way. He was trawling, I was anchored. Oh well.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
KLC Lewis wrote:

Can we all just agree that EVERY skipper has the duty and obligation
to avoid collisions with other vessels, and to make our intentions
known to other boats on the water?


Now there is a good idea... oddly enough it is mentioned in ColRegs,
too. Make helm corrections early, make them obvious, so the other vessel
doesn't ahve to guess your intentions.

... Generally speaking, however, powerboats (or sailboats under power,
being the same thing) are much more maneuverable


Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are a lot more
maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have something to do with it,
I'm guessing!
If sailboats were more maneouverable they would get the right of way
most of the time. Under power they are not sailboats.

and/or free to take any heading they like, than sailboats. When
singlehanding my ketch, I also use autopilot quite a bit --
nevertheless, that doesn't relieve me of the obligation to avoid
collisions.


Uh-oh, now you're expecting common sense?!?

We've had people walk out on their foredeck and angrily yell at us to
keep out of their way because they were on autopilot. Haven't had that
happen when we were anchored, but that'll probably occur any day now.

I recently had a shrimp trawler yell at me to get out of his way. He was
trawling, I was anchored. Oh well.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are a lot more
maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have something to do with it,
I'm guessing!

Gary wrote:
If sailboats were more maneouverable they would get the right of way
most of the time. Under power they are not sailboats.


No, but they still have the hull & foil characteristics of
sailboats, which give them sharper... and more consistent...
turning radius.

There is no doubt that sailboats are maneuverable in terms
of their handling in confined space.

However, their relative speed and (when under sail) their
limits on their operational freedom of heading is what makes
them "considered" to be less maneuverable in the ColRegs.

I don't know where some people who own sailboats get the
idea they have the "right-of-way" even when motoring. It's
just plain stupid.

DSK

DSK wrote:
Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are a lot
more maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have something to do
with it, I'm guessing!


Gary wrote:

If sailboats were more maneouverable they would get the right of way
most of the time. Under power they are not sailboats.


No, but they still have the hull & foil characteristics of sailboats,
which give them sharper... and more consistent... turning radius.

There is no doubt that sailboats are maneuverable in terms of their
handling in confined space.

However, their relative speed and (when under sail) their limits on
their operational freedom of heading is what makes them "considered" to
be less maneuverable in the ColRegs.

I don't know where some people who own sailboats get the idea they have
the "right-of-way" even when motoring. It's just plain stupid.

DSK

I don't think that the R of R were created thinking of hull and foil
characteristics. I think it has more to do with the slow speed and
limited freedom of movement of large sailing craft as compared to
similar sized power driven vessels. A large square rigger who has to
fall off the wind to give way to a freighter may take a day to get back
to where he was. A freighter could recover in minutes. It also takes
and entire crew to alter a large sailing vessel and one guy to alter a
power driven vessel. The rules were originally written with shipping in
mind, not small handy vessels.

My opinion.....

One issue I have with sailboats is two meeting after dark. How can the
racing rules or the R of R be applied after dark when you can't see what
tack the other boat is on?

In a recent race I was in, the sailors left their masthead lights on
(anchor lights) so they could see the wind indicators at the mast head.
For all the world they looked like power driven vessels from a
distance. Do you think they knew that?

Gary

"Gary" wrote in message
news:e0dyg.245823$iF6.163191@pd7tw2no...

I don't think that the R of R were created thinking of
hull and foil
characteristics. I think it has more to do with the slow
speed and
limited freedom of movement of large sailing craft as
compared to
similar sized power driven vessels. A large square rigger
who has to
fall off the wind to give way to a freighter may take a
day to get back
to where he was. A freighter could recover in minutes.
It also takes
and entire crew to alter a large sailing vessel and one
guy to alter a
power driven vessel. The rules were originally written
with shipping in
mind, not small handy vessels.


According to Wayne, it's very hard for a power vessel to
alter it's course.

SBV

"Gary" wrote in message
news:kucyg.245719$iF6.215069@pd7tw2no...
DSK wrote:
KLC Lewis wrote:

Can we all just agree that EVERY skipper has the duty and obligation to
avoid collisions with other vessels, and to make our intentions known to
other boats on the water?


Now there is a good idea... oddly enough it is mentioned in ColRegs, too.
Make helm corrections early, make them obvious, so the other vessel
doesn't ahve to guess your intentions.

... Generally speaking, however, powerboats (or sailboats under power,
being the same thing) are much more maneuverable


Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are a lot more
maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have something to do with it,
I'm guessing!
If sailboats were more maneouverable they would get the right of way most
of the time. Under power they are not sailboats.

and/or free to take any heading they like, than sailboats. When
singlehanding my ketch, I also use autopilot quite a bit --
nevertheless, that doesn't relieve me of the obligation to avoid
collisions.


Uh-oh, now you're expecting common sense?!?

We've had people walk out on their foredeck and angrily yell at us to
keep out of their way because they were on autopilot. Haven't had that
happen when we were anchored, but that'll probably occur any day now.

I recently had a shrimp trawler yell at me to get out of his way. He was
trawling, I was anchored. Oh well.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Gary, the least maneuverable tend to have higher status.. that's why there
is restricted-by-maneuverability rule for example. Perhaps you need to
rethink this.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"Gary" wrote in message
news:kucyg.245719$iF6.215069@pd7tw2no...

DSK wrote:

KLC Lewis wrote:


Can we all just agree that EVERY skipper has the duty and obligation to
avoid collisions with other vessels, and to make our intentions known to
other boats on the water?


Now there is a good idea... oddly enough it is mentioned in ColRegs, too.
Make helm corrections early, make them obvious, so the other vessel
doesn't ahve to guess your intentions.


... Generally speaking, however, powerboats (or sailboats under power,
being the same thing) are much more maneuverable


Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are a lot more
maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have something to do with it,
I'm guessing!

If sailboats were more maneouverable they would get the right of way most
of the time. Under power they are not sailboats.

and/or free to take any heading they like, than sailboats. When
singlehanding my ketch, I also use autopilot quite a bit --
nevertheless, that doesn't relieve me of the obligation to avoid
collisions.


Uh-oh, now you're expecting common sense?!?

We've had people walk out on their foredeck and angrily yell at us to
keep out of their way because they were on autopilot. Haven't had that
happen when we were anchored, but that'll probably occur any day now.

I recently had a shrimp trawler yell at me to get out of his way. He was
trawling, I was anchored. Oh well.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Gary, the least maneuverable tend to have higher status.. that's why there
is restricted-by-maneuverability rule for example. Perhaps you need to
rethink this.

You must read what I meant not what I said. If sailboats were more
maneouverable they wouldn't have the right of way most of the time.

Sorry.

Heh...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gary" wrote in message
news:Q2dyg.247980$Mn5.59608@pd7tw3no...
Capt. JG wrote:
"Gary" wrote in message
news:kucyg.245719$iF6.215069@pd7tw2no...

DSK wrote:

KLC Lewis wrote:


Can we all just agree that EVERY skipper has the duty and obligation to
avoid collisions with other vessels, and to make our intentions known
to other boats on the water?


Now there is a good idea... oddly enough it is mentioned in ColRegs,
too. Make helm corrections early, make them obvious, so the other vessel
doesn't ahve to guess your intentions.


... Generally speaking, however, powerboats (or sailboats under power,
being the same thing) are much more maneuverable


Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are a lot more
maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have something to do with it,
I'm guessing!

If sailboats were more maneouverable they would get the right of way most
of the time. Under power they are not sailboats.

and/or free to take any heading they like, than sailboats. When
singlehanding my ketch, I also use autopilot quite a bit --
nevertheless, that doesn't relieve me of the obligation to avoid
collisions.


Uh-oh, now you're expecting common sense?!?

We've had people walk out on their foredeck and angrily yell at us to
keep out of their way because they were on autopilot. Haven't had that
happen when we were anchored, but that'll probably occur any day now.

I recently had a shrimp trawler yell at me to get out of his way. He was
trawling, I was anchored. Oh well.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Gary, the least maneuverable tend to have higher status.. that's why
there is restricted-by-maneuverability rule for example. Perhaps you need
to rethink this.

You must read what I meant not what I said. If sailboats were more
maneouverable they wouldn't have the right of way most of the time.

Sorry.