On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:15:40 -0400, DSK wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
Roger, with all due respect, a large wake should be regarded as just
another wave in a seaworthy and decent sized boat such as yours.

With all due respect, it is well to keep in mind that the
operator of a vessel making a wake is 100% responsible for
the damage done by his wake. It is exactly the same as a
person with a gun being held responsible for where his
bullets end up.

No boat of Roger's size should be at risk of damage from a wake in
open water.


.... It
is unreasonable to expect people to slow down except in a confined
area where you could lose control.


It is unreasonable to expect to endanger... or even present
a major & potentially expensive inconvenience... to other
people and have them shrug it off.

Danger is in the eye of the beholder. Since I wasn't there, it's
difficult to assess the situation impartially. I can say that in two
years of trawlering our GB49 up and down the east coast that I have
seen some incredibly bad behavior from a few sailboats who think that
they still have the right of way when motoring with the mainsail up,
or the right to suddenly tack in front with less than two boat lengths
separation, and various other similar examples.


Almost all boats of that size are piloted by professionals and will
respond positively to requests presented in a professional manner.


That's been my experience as well, but the exceptions are
always noteworthy.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

What about the people on it? Suppose someone was injured. That could easily
happen as a result of wake or evasive maneuvers to avoid a collision.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:15:40 -0400, DSK wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
Roger, with all due respect, a large wake should be regarded as just
another wave in a seaworthy and decent sized boat such as yours.

With all due respect, it is well to keep in mind that the
operator of a vessel making a wake is 100% responsible for
the damage done by his wake. It is exactly the same as a
person with a gun being held responsible for where his
bullets end up.

No boat of Roger's size should be at risk of damage from a wake in
open water.


.... It
is unreasonable to expect people to slow down except in a confined
area where you could lose control.


It is unreasonable to expect to endanger... or even present
a major & potentially expensive inconvenience... to other
people and have them shrug it off.

Danger is in the eye of the beholder. Since I wasn't there, it's
difficult to assess the situation impartially. I can say that in two
years of trawlering our GB49 up and down the east coast that I have
seen some incredibly bad behavior from a few sailboats who think that
they still have the right of way when motoring with the mainsail up,
or the right to suddenly tack in front with less than two boat lengths
separation, and various other similar examples.


Almost all boats of that size are piloted by professionals and will
respond positively to requests presented in a professional manner.


That's been my experience as well, but the exceptions are
always noteworthy.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I have limited salt water experience, only a couple of bareboat
charters in the Gulf of Mexico... But I have a lifetime of sweet water
sailing on the Great Lakes... One thing I learned early on is that
ships/freighters don't change course, even in a thousand feet of water
and no land visible in any direction... There is no one looking out
the window, and no one will answer the radio - and if in some miracle
they did they don't speak any english anyway...

So, as a sail boat skipper I learned to automatically change course as
soon as I see it is going to be close...... I don't get all bent up
over regulations, or that as a sailing vessel I have the right of way,
or that the hired Captain is an arrogant ass... Opposing a large ship
is like a motorcycle challenging a semi at 70 MPH on a narrow road...
You may be dead right on your cycle, but you will still be dead...
Roger, take a deep breath and forget about it...

cheers ... denny

"Denny" wrote

Roger, take a deep breath and forget about it...

Don't read too much into this. These were hardly big deals or
emergencies but they do raise some interesting discussion points about
the current state of the system we all rely on to help us avoid
hitting each other.

I used to sail Solings around Boston Harbor on Sunday afternoons with
spinnakers set so I'm comfortable keeping complex traffic situations
sorted out and handling a sailboat. Both of these close encounters
however, were situations where an inexperienced person, already
dealing with challenging conditions, could have gotten into trouble.
The skippers of these two boats had no way of knowing I wasn't one of
those.

What I hear from my numerous contacts on the "other side", as one
primarily involved with commercial vessels, is irritation that so many
sailboats assume that the always have the right of way, even over
large vessels constrained in channels and, as someone else responded,
when their engines are on. Many also think the sails give them the
right to tack whenever they want.

What we may be seeing here is the commercial vessels (and private
yacht captains with the conceit that they are such) pushing back by
trying to promote the expectation that they will NEVER deviate or
change speed for smaller craft. If this is the case, it's only a
matter of time before there is a tragedy.

--

Roger Long

While sailing the lower Ches. Bay, I noticed a freighter
about a mile off, directly astern on my same heading. Soon
after, the Capt ( probably a pilot ) radioed and asked if I
was going to maintain my course. I replied that I could
change course easily and asked which direction he would
prefer I do so. He asked me if I wouldn't mind steering to
port a few degrees and said he would veer to starboard some.
I gybed and headed off 60 8 to port, well out of his path.
He thanked me and we wished each other a safe trip.
Not your normal ''power boater'' story, eh?


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_


"Denny" wrote in message
ups.com...

I have limited salt water experience, only a couple of
bareboat
charters in the Gulf of Mexico... But I have a lifetime of
sweet water
sailing on the Great Lakes... One thing I learned early on
is that
ships/freighters don't change course, even in a thousand
feet of water
and no land visible in any direction... There is no one
looking out
the window, and no one will answer the radio - and if in
some miracle
they did they don't speak any english anyway...

So, as a sail boat skipper I learned to automatically
change course as
soon as I see it is going to be close...... I don't get
all bent up
over regulations, or that as a sailing vessel I have the
right of way,
or that the hired Captain is an arrogant ass... Opposing
a large ship
is like a motorcycle challenging a semi at 70 MPH on a
narrow road...
You may be dead right on your cycle, but you will still be
dead...
Roger, take a deep breath and forget about it...

cheers ... denny

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:08:48 -0400, "Scotty"
wrote:

While sailing the lower Ches. Bay, I noticed a freighter
about a mile off, directly astern on my same heading. Soon
after, the Capt ( probably a pilot ) radioed and asked if I
was going to maintain my course. I replied that I could
change course easily and asked which direction he would
prefer I do so. He asked me if I wouldn't mind steering to
port a few degrees and said he would veer to starboard some.
I gybed and headed off 60 8 to port, well out of his path.
He thanked me and we wished each other a safe trip.
Not your normal ''power boater'' story, eh?

Perhaps not but I've had pretty good luck communicating with
commercial vessels about their course and intentions. We even had an
interesting dialog last year with a large navy vessel off the coast on
Beaufort, NC. They were making frequent course changes and the last
one put us at a CPA of less than 1/2 mile, too close for my comfort.
I hailed them on channel 13 and they assured me that they were
tracking us on radar, and that we would pass astern if we held speed
and course. They were right, but at least we had established that
they were aware of us and not planning any more immediate course
changes.

Obviously none of this is possible if you wait until the last minute,
or if you don't have a radio close at hand.

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:22:28 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

Obviously none of this is possible if you wait until the last minute,
or if you don't have a radio close at hand.

Or it's useless in a breeze so you don't even try.

Denny wrote:
I have limited salt water experience, only a couple of bareboat
charters in the Gulf of Mexico... But I have a lifetime of sweet water
sailing on the Great Lakes... One thing I learned early on is that
ships/freighters don't change course, even in a thousand feet of water
and no land visible in any direction... There is no one looking out
the window, and no one will answer the radio - and if in some miracle
they did they don't speak any english anyway...

So, as a sail boat skipper I learned to automatically change course as
soon as I see it is going to be close...... I don't get all bent up
over regulations, or that as a sailing vessel I have the right of way,
or that the hired Captain is an arrogant ass... Opposing a large ship
is like a motorcycle challenging a semi at 70 MPH on a narrow road...
You may be dead right on your cycle, but you will still be dead...
Roger, take a deep breath and forget about it...

cheers ... denny


Here lies the body of William J.
He died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right as he sped along
but he's just as dead as if he'd been dead wrong.

--
Stephen

-------

For any proposition there is always some sufficiently narrow
interpretation of its terms, such that it turns out true, and
some sufficiently wide interpretation such that it turns out
false...concept stretching will refute *any* statement, and will
leave no true statement whatsoever.
-- Imre Lakatos