Gogarty wrote:

I thought the one thing we all agreed upon here is that nobody criticizes
anyone else's boat handling because no matter how skilled and experienced you
are sooner or later you will end up in the same embarrasssing not to say
dangerous situation as the clunkiest among us. This does not apply to motor
boaters.

Who agreed on that? And why, if we are agreed, do people say that an
electric windlass is absolutely required and anyone who does not want
one must be some kind of idiot?

So your anchor always sets and you almost never have to reset? Great. Try a
bottom covered with tree branches or other fouling. Or soupy mud. Or being
downwind of a raft that has broken loose. Or...or...or... And don't criticize
ny anchoring technique when you don't know under what conditions I am
operating or with what equipment.

I am assuming (although we know about that) that you are referring to
me. I was tentative about offering any criticism because I wasn't
very comfortable with doing it, but it does seem to me that if someone
OFTEN has to reset an anchor so that an electric windlass would be an
absolute necessity, that it might be a good idea to check up on your
anchoring techniques, or your pick of an anchorage or your equipment
so that you don't have to do it so often. Even with an electric
windlass it would be a PITA to do it OFTEN.

When we have a problem, we usually try to figure out what we did
wrong, so that we can avoid doing it again. And in no case has the
lack of an electric windlass been a problem. Even when one has back
problems, the amount of leverage provided by the windlass handle is
such that no hard effort is required, and it isn't a back issue.

Plus, I don't think that being downwind of a raft that has broken
loose happens very often.

Now that I think about it, I remember more times that we have had to
reset than I did originally. They didn't turn up in my memory
because they were really non-events compared to all the times that the
anchor held beautifully without resetting even in fairly violent
stormy conditions.

For instance when we turned into Mile Hammock Bay, an artificial
dredged anchorage (on Marine Corps property - Camp Lejeune NC) at
2:30 pm in the rain in November 2000, there were 3 other boats already
there . Bob decided to anchor on the inner edge of the dredged area
away from the other boats. We had difficulty because we would start
out in 10 feet of water and as he let out the anchor chain, we would
be blown out onto the shallow part and end up in 5 feet of water. Bob
reset the anchor once, and then just decided to put out less scope.
Eight other boats came into the anchorage later, including a trawler
who appeared to have anchored on top of our anchor. But the trawler
left very early so we didn't have to decide what to do about that. We
didn't anchor in that anchorage again because we figured our mileage
so that we didn't have to - mostly because the entrance to the
anchorage was a bit shallow, and Bob hates going aground but also
because there was a cheap marina in Swansboro which we stayed at on
subsequent trips. (Although on the last trip in the spring of 2004
the docks appeared quite deteriorated so I don't know if we would go
there again.)

In article ,
says...


Gogarty wrote:

I thought the one thing we all agreed upon here is that nobody criticizes
anyone else's boat handling because no matter how skilled and experienced
you
are sooner or later you will end up in the same embarrasssing not to say
dangerous situation as the clunkiest among us. This does not apply to motor
boaters.

Who agreed on that? And why, if we are agreed, do people say that an
electric windlass is absolutely required and anyone who does not want
one must be some kind of idiot?

So your anchor always sets and you almost never have to reset? Great. Try a
bottom covered with tree branches or other fouling. Or soupy mud. Or being
downwind of a raft that has broken loose. Or...or...or... And don't
criticize
ny anchoring technique when you don't know under what conditions I am
operating or with what equipment.

I am assuming (although we know about that) that you are referring to
me. I was tentative about offering any criticism because I wasn't
very comfortable with doing it, but it does seem to me that if someone
OFTEN has to reset an anchor so that an electric windlass would be an
absolute necessity, that it might be a good idea to check up on your
anchoring techniques, or your pick of an anchorage or your equipment
so that you don't have to do it so often. Even with an electric
windlass it would be a PITA to do it OFTEN.

When we have a problem, we usually try to figure out what we did
wrong, so that we can avoid doing it again. And in no case has the
lack of an electric windlass been a problem. Even when one has back
problems, the amount of leverage provided by the windlass handle is
such that no hard effort is required, and it isn't a back issue.

Plus, I don't think that being downwind of a raft that has broken
loose happens very often.

Now that I think about it, I remember more times that we have had to
reset than I did originally. They didn't turn up in my memory
because they were really non-events compared to all the times that the
anchor held beautifully without resetting even in fairly violent
stormy conditions.

For instance when we turned into Mile Hammock Bay, an artificial
dredged anchorage (on Marine Corps property - Camp Lejeune NC) at
2:30 pm in the rain in November 2000, there were 3 other boats already
there . Bob decided to anchor on the inner edge of the dredged area
away from the other boats. We had difficulty because we would start
out in 10 feet of water and as he let out the anchor chain, we would
be blown out onto the shallow part and end up in 5 feet of water. Bob
reset the anchor once, and then just decided to put out less scope.
Eight other boats came into the anchorage later, including a trawler
who appeared to have anchored on top of our anchor. But the trawler
left very early so we didn't have to decide what to do about that. We
didn't anchor in that anchorage again because we figured our mileage
so that we didn't have to - mostly because the entrance to the
anchorage was a bit shallow, and Bob hates going aground but also
because there was a cheap marina in Swansboro which we stayed at on
subsequent trips. (Although on the last trip in the spring of 2004
the docks appeared quite deteriorated so I don't know if we would go
there again.)

There! See?

You don't want an electric windlass? Fine. But don't make others out to be
somewhat less than pure if they desire to have one. Best umpteen bucks I ever
spent. And I looked at manual ones. Never looked back.

Perhaps someone can explain to me how it is that every dinky power boat has a
windlass but on sailboats as large as 45 ft and even larger a windlass is not
standard equipment? Our 37 footer and an Endeavour 40 belonging to a friend
aren't even windlass friendly when it comes to adding one. They just were not
designed for after-market windlasses.

Gogarty wrote:

In article ,
says...

snip
Now that I think about it, I remember more times that we have had to
reset than I did originally. They didn't turn up in my memory
because they were really non-events compared to all the times that the
anchor held beautifully without resetting even in fairly violent
stormy conditions.

For instance when we turned into Mile Hammock Bay, an artificial
dredged anchorage (on Marine Corps property - Camp Lejeune NC) at
2:30 pm in the rain in November 2000, there were 3 other boats already
there . Bob decided to anchor on the inner edge of the dredged area
away from the other boats. We had difficulty because we would start
out in 10 feet of water and as he let out the anchor chain, we would
be blown out onto the shallow part and end up in 5 feet of water. Bob
reset the anchor once, and then just decided to put out less scope.
Eight other boats came into the anchorage later, including a trawler
who appeared to have anchored on top of our anchor. But the trawler
left very early so we didn't have to decide what to do about that. We
didn't anchor in that anchorage again because we figured our mileage
so that we didn't have to - mostly because the entrance to the
anchorage was a bit shallow, and Bob hates going aground but also
because there was a cheap marina in Swansboro which we stayed at on
subsequent trips. (Although on the last trip in the spring of 2004
the docks appeared quite deteriorated so I don't know if we would go
there again.)

There! See?

My point is that we evaluated the anchorage and decided we didn't need
to go there again. What would be foolish is if we went back again and
again and had the same trouble all over again each time.

You don't want an electric windlass? Fine. But don't make others out to be
somewhat less than pure if they desire to have one. Best umpteen bucks I ever
spent. And I looked at manual ones. Never looked back.

I didn't try to make someone out as less than pure - I think that was
someone else.

We have a manual windlass (and we have NEVER considered being WITHOUT
a windlass) because we felt that the problems that would come with an
additional battery for it, or additional battery cables to charge the
battery or to get electric power to the windlass from the battery were
more than we wanted to deal with. Bob didn't want to run long
stretches of big electrical wire through the boat. And it isn't
because he didn't know HOW to do it, because he converted an Escort
station wagon to run on batteries and drove it to work for the last 6
years before he retired. So he COULD have done it - he just decided
that he didn't want to.

We chartered a boat like ours and it had an electric windlass, which
he had a chance to use. Our boat came with an electric windlass, but
it was inoperative. We had to chisel it off the bow where it was
rusted in place before we could put the manual one on there.

BTW most of the wiring on the boat had to be replaced with better
quality and more heavy duty wiring.

Perhaps someone can explain to me how it is that every dinky power boat has a
windlass but on sailboats as large as 45 ft and even larger a windlass is not
standard equipment? Our 37 footer and an Endeavour 40 belonging to a friend
aren't even windlass friendly when it comes to adding one. They just were not
designed for after-market windlasses.

Most power boats don't have anything like an adequate anchor rode IMHO
and many of them don't have a windlass. I've seen what my SIL thinks
is adequate for his boat. And he had to install it because the boat
did not come with a windlass. A lot of them don't even have a way to
anchor or at least they don't use an anchor if they have it - they
seem content to sit and fish, just drifting around.

Our friends with a trawler have a set-up where he can't even see the
anchor from the helm and he has to yell at his wife when to let it go.
It is electric though.

In article ,
says...

Our friends with a trawler have a set-up where he can't even see the
anchor from the helm and he has to yell at his wife when to let it go.
It is electric though.

My wife does not like being yelled at. So we got a pair of those dinkly
little walky-talkies that have about a half mile range. Motorola. Really cool.

Gogarty wrote:

In article ,
says...

Our friends with a trawler have a set-up where he can't even see the
anchor from the helm and he has to yell at his wife when to let it go.
It is electric though.

My wife does not like being yelled at. So we got a pair of those dinkly
little walky-talkies that have about a half mile range. Motorola. Really cool.

More than being yelled at, I hate yelling at him and having to repeat
everything. We are both a little deaf, so we use hand signals.
(middle fingers not included although sometimes when the hand signals
get more vigorous I know he is yelling). Walkie talkies do not work
for either of us.

"Gogarty" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Our friends with a trawler have a set-up where he can't
even see the
anchor from the helm and he has to yell at his wife when
to let it go.
It is electric though.

My wife does not like being yelled at. So we got a pair of
those dinkly
little walky-talkies that have about a half mile range.
Motorola. Really cool.


Are they hands free?

I have a very crappy pair... I think they cost all of $10. They're
hands-free.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Gogarty" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Our friends with a trawler have a set-up where he can't
even see the
anchor from the helm and he has to yell at his wife when
to let it go.
It is electric though.

My wife does not like being yelled at. So we got a pair of
those dinkly
little walky-talkies that have about a half mile range.
Motorola. Really cool.


Are they hands free?

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:10:58 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

Perhaps someone can explain to me how it is that every dinky power boat has a
windlass but on sailboats as large as 45 ft and even larger a windlass is not
standard equipment? Our 37 footer and an Endeavour 40 belonging to a friend
aren't even windlass friendly when it comes to adding one. They just were not
designed for after-market windlasses.

There are probably several different reasons, starting with
performance. Sailboat bows are narrow with a fine entry for reasons
of sailing efficiency. That also makes them sensitive to increased
weight on the bow, and an anchor windlass with its wiring and/or
battery will not help performance at all.

Electrical power is another issue. Most power boats have plenty of
battery capacity and frequently have generators available to assist
with recharging.

It's also a fact that power boats require heavier anchors because of
wider beam, more weight and higher windage. I used to anchor a 34 ft
sailboat quite securely with a 20 lb Danforth but my old 33 ft
sportfish needed a 44 lb Spade to be securely anchored in comparable
conditions.