So why would you install a macerator if you don't plan to dump the tank
at sea? Or do you think a whole tankful is better for the environment
than a single flush?

I don't want to install a macerator.

I am considering a new, simpler, and easier to maintain head
arrangement that would include 1) manual freshwater flushing, 2) no
macerator, 3) no Y valve, 4) Lavac or Skipper toilet, 5) just a
freshwater intake, a vent, and a deck pump-out, and 6) high-quality
hoses.

I am thinking about ordering a new Valiant 42. This set-up would
eliminate two holes in the boat, right? And, this would seem to be a
higher quality alternative to what you recommended a few strings up: a
permantent porta-potti with pump-out feature. Simple and easy to
maintain.

Just getting some ideas here. Thanks!

BocaJack wrote:

I am considering a new, simpler, and easier to maintain head
arrangement that would include 1) manual freshwater flushing,

And how do you plan to accomplish that if you install a toilet designed
to pull in sea water? 'Cuz no toilet designed to use raw water (sea,
lake, river etc) should ever be connected to the onboard fresh water
supply...it cannot be done without risk of e-coli contamination of the
potable water, damage to the toilet, or both...and every toilet mfr
specifically warns against it. Only toilets designed to use pressurized
flush water can safely be connected to the fresh water system...and
there is no manual toilet designed to use pressurized flush water.

2) no
macerator, 3) no Y valve, 4) Lavac or Skipper toilet, 5) just a
freshwater intake, a vent, and a deck pump-out, and 6) high-quality
hoses.


I am thinking about ordering a new Valiant 42. This set-up would
eliminate two holes in the boat, right?

Only one if you tee the head intake into the head sink drain line.

However sending everything to the tank with no way to flush directly
overboard or dump the tank at sea(flushing directly overboard is a much
better choice...no chemicals, small amounts instead of tankfuls) will
drastically reduce your cruising range...you can only stay out till the
tank gets full. And holding tanks are FAR from maintenance free.

And, this would seem to be a
higher quality alternative to what you recommended a few strings up: a
permantent porta-potti with pump-out feature.

More expensive, more complex, but not necessarily better
quality...Quality is relative. Is a Lexus better quality than bicycle?
No...that's comparing apples to tennis balls.

Simple and easy to
maintain.

If you think a tank is easy to maintain, talk to a few people who've
done it for a while. Tanks are a major PITA!

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 05:17:11 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

BocaJack wrote:

I am considering a new, simpler, and easier to maintain head
arrangement that would include 1) manual freshwater flushing,

And how do you plan to accomplish that if you install a toilet designed
to pull in sea water? 'Cuz no toilet designed to use raw water (sea,
lake, river etc) should ever be connected to the onboard fresh water
supply...

Only toilets designed to use pressurized flush water can safely be connected to the fresh water system...and
there is no manual toilet designed to use pressurized flush water.

I'm obviously confused.

Pressurized flush water? What do you mean by this?

Don't the electric pumps force air into the water tanks and push it
up? If the electric pump is off, does this mean the water system is no
longer "pressurized"? How does it work?

BocaJack wrote:
Only toilets designed to use pressurized flush water can safely be connected to the fresh water system...and
there is no manual toilet designed to use pressurized flush water.

I'm obviously confused.

Pressurized flush water? What do you mean by this?


Don't the electric pumps force air into the water tanks and push it
up?

Nope. There are raw electric toilets that PULL in sea water...and there
are toilets designed to use pressurized flush water that tap into a
fresh water line, and have a electric solenoid valve that acts like a
faucet. They can only be used on boats that have electric fresh water
pumps, and only when the water pump is on to keep the fresh water system
pressurized.

If the electric pump is off, does this mean the water system is no
longer "pressurized"? How does it work?

It doesn't. The water pump must be on to keep the fresh water plumbing
pressurized.

For some reason, a lot of sailors think that leaving the fresh water
pump on is a bad idea...they only turn it on when they need to run
water. THAT's a bad idea...'cuz the fresh water system loses pressure
every time the pump is turned off...so it has re-pressurize the system
every time it's turned back on, which is a lot of extra work for the
fresh water pump, shortening its life. But if the p0ump is left on, the
only time it has to run is when qa faucet is opened...to
restore/maintain pressure caused by running water.

Same is true of a fridge, btw...the hardest work a fridge compressor has
to do is chill a warm box. So leave it on...the compressor only has to
maintain it.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Peggie Hall wrote:


Nope. There are raw electric toilets that PULL in sea water...and
there
are toilets designed to use pressurized flush water that tap into a
fresh water line, and have a electric solenoid valve that acts like a
faucet.

snip

If you truly want to use potable water to flush your manual Lavac,
there is only one fool proof way to do it.

Leave the lid up, then add potable water from the shower wand, keeping
the wand 12"-18" above the bowl.

Don't bother to connect the flush water connection since you are not
using it.


Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Peggie Hall wrote:


Nope. There are raw electric toilets that PULL in sea water...and there
are toilets designed to use pressurized flush water that tap into a
fresh water line, and have a electric solenoid valve that acts like a
faucet.

snip

If you truly want to use potable water to flush your manual Lavac, there
is only one fool proof way to do it.

Leave the lid up, then add potable water from the shower wand, keeping
the wand 12"-18" above the bowl.

Don't bother to connect the flush water connection since you are not
using it.


Lew
A completely separate FW tank plumbed to the head and totally isolated
from the other FW tanks is every bit as "fool proof." On the other hand,
your suggestion is a good one because you could then use the water for
potable applications as well as for the head.

--Alan Gomes

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:46:28 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:


If you truly want to use potable water to flush your manual Lavac,
there is only one fool proof way to do it.

Leave the lid up, then add potable water from the shower wand, keeping
the wand 12"-18" above the bowl.

Don't bother to connect the flush water connection since you are not
using it.


Lew

The only easy, economical way, probably. But I've crewed on a number
of trawlers (mostly Grand Banks) that have separate freswater tanks
for flushwater. Typically they are unpressurized, using a standard
head with an electric motor driving the pump mechanism.

Don't think it's worth the trouble, myself, but rich trawler owners
(and especially their wives) seem to be a lot more prissy than
sailboat trash like me.

__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at world wide wiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

BocaJack wrote:
So why would you install a macerator if you don't plan to dump the tank
at sea? Or do you think a whole tankful is better for the environment
than a single flush?

I don't want to install a macerator.

I am considering a new, simpler, and easier to maintain head
arrangement that would include 1) manual freshwater flushing, 2) no
macerator, 3) no Y valve, 4) Lavac or Skipper toilet, 5) just a
freshwater intake, a vent, and a deck pump-out, and 6) high-quality
hoses.

I am thinking about ordering a new Valiant 42. This set-up would
eliminate two holes in the boat, right? And, this would seem to be a
higher quality alternative to what you recommended a few strings up: a
permantent porta-potti with pump-out feature. Simple and easy to
maintain.

Just getting some ideas here. Thanks!


How would you empty the tank at sea? With this arrangement it seems like
your cruising range and locations would be rather limited as you'd be
virtually tethered to marinas with pumpout facilities.

--Alan Gomes