Rosalie B. wrote:

I doubt very much if the live end falling in the water is really a
hazard to the sunset watcher.

As a parent, although daughter just graduated from HS, of a small kid
say 0-18 years old I get really protective when it comes to my kid
getting killed because of (1) some Libertarian Don't Tread On Me sob
and (2) some knuckle head who doesn't know ****.

Why would they not just pull up the
cord from the end on the dock (where it will still be because it is
screwed down to the dock - right)?

Yea right, and my 12 year old scrambling around the dock has the
insight to put that scenario together?

Why go into the water after it?

Swimmers, working divers, reach down to wash hands off. Have you ever
worked with kids or the general public? Ever wonder why people get
washed off rocks, rolled over and crushed by logs on the beach in the
PNW, or marry the Bitch or Jerk from hell: Judgment. Hazard recognition
aint in their brain. Please don't tell me that you are so wise you
never made a mistake? Ever stub your toe or get a sunburn? Gee, I guess
you should have known better.

And if they do - well it's something to report to the Darwin people.

When it comes to the safety of your grand children I think you would be
saying something else.

In any case, unscrewing the breaker box and unplugging the cord was
sufficient.

I would say required of any normal person........ plus leave a message.

There are some things that are just plain wrong.

grandma Rosalie
"Use your own judgment and then do as I say"

Try this next time you see the cord person: "Hey stupid ****. If that
goes in the water and my kid gets zapped I am going to own your boat,
house, and your balls!"

Dad tired of idiots trying to kill my kid Bob

I agree with Rosalie that the odds of anything actually happening are
very low but, even at the low level of risk, I agree with Bob's
sentiments as well. We do all sorts of things in boating and other
activities to avoid hazard where the risk is very low. I believe
Rosalie was involved in industrial risk management so I'm a bit
surprised at her sanguine attitude. (There are 10 -20 feet of loose
cord beyond the section that is screwed down.)

All the docks and equipment in this marina were recycled from another
marina that was upgrading it's equipment so I wouldn't put much faith
in the breakers.

BTW there is an upside to this fellow. I wanted to wash of my dinghy
and he also left his hose connected to the outlet that serves six
slips. Nice not to have to get mine out. Not only that, but he left
to valve on so the hose was pressurize and I didn't even have to turn
it on. Did you know that when you leave water pressure on some garden
hose for 3 - 4 days it gets about two inch in diameter? Of course, if
it had burst, he would have deprived the whole row on that dock of
water until someone figured it out.

--

Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote:

I agree with Rosalie that the odds of anything actually happening are
very low but, even at the low level of risk, I agree with Bob's
sentiments as well. We do all sorts of things in boating and other
activities to avoid hazard where the risk is very low. I believe
Rosalie was involved in industrial risk management so I'm a bit
surprised at her sanguine attitude. (There are 10 -20 feet of loose
cord beyond the section that is screwed down.)

You said that it was screwed down every so many feet and didn't
specify how long the end was, or how high the dock is above the water
(or if it is a floating dock). If there is 10 feet of loose cord,
then there is even a greater chance of just pulling the cord out
without getting wet. What is difficult about bending down and picking
up the cord off the dock and pulling the end out of the water? (which
this time of year is too cold to go into anyway)

I have seen a power cord with the end in the water, but it was the
marina end and not the boat end of the cord. (It was in the Bahamas
and the dockmaster didn't seem concerned.) That cord it would have
been difficult to retrieve without going on board the boat.

I thought of saying that it would be a greater risk to a dog sticking
its wet nose into the live end - I didn't think of children, since I
would feel children on a dock should either be old enough to be told
by the parents not to mess with it or be under the immediate control
of the parent. Because if a child falls in, then just the water is
enough of a hazard without adding the unlikely problem of electricity.
I definitely would not allow toddlers out of arms reach.

I don't know why anyone should try to get an electric cord out of the
water if it wasn't their cord. Swimming off the docks is forbidden
in our marina, so they would not be doing that or at least not
legally. The water is a fairly long distance down (depending on the
tide) We have fixed docks and I could not wash my hands from the dock
without lying down on my stomach.

I agree that working divers might have a problem, but I think a
greater hazard realistically was the one mentioned about the
electrical currents eating up the zincs.


All the docks and equipment in this marina were recycled from another
marina that was upgrading it's equipment so I wouldn't put much faith
in the breakers.

BTW there is an upside to this fellow. I wanted to wash of my dinghy
and he also left his hose connected to the outlet that serves six
slips. Nice not to have to get mine out. Not only that, but he left
to valve on so the hose was pressurize and I didn't even have to turn
it on. Did you know that when you leave water pressure on some garden
hose for 3 - 4 days it gets about two inch in diameter? Of course, if
it had burst, he would have deprived the whole row on that dock of
water until someone figured it out.

On 2006-06-12 08:47:17 -0400, Rosalie B. said:

I have seen a power cord with the end in the water, but it was the
marina end and not the boat end of the cord. (It was in the Bahamas
and the dockmaster didn't seem concerned.) That cord it would have
been difficult to retrieve without going on board the boat.

Yes, but the marina end falling in doesn't present much of a hazard.
The cord isn't live then. DUH. I'd really like to see you grab a live
wet A/C cord that is coated with salt water and live. Apparently, you
don't have the brains god gave an ant.

"Bob" wrote:

This whole post is a cheap shot. People marrying the Jerk from Hell
is not at issue here, and neither is getting washed off rocks. I
would definitely expect a 12 yo to be at least as able to figure out
that he could pull up the cord without diving into the water as a
drunk adult. And 0-18 years? Get real. At 0 years they aren't going
to be running around the docks and they should be capable of thought
well before 18 years.

What Roger did was sufficient. He detached the cord from the 110 v
end.

Rosalie B. wrote:

I doubt very much if the live end falling in the water is really a
hazard to the sunset watcher.

As a parent, although daughter just graduated from HS, of a small kid
say 0-18 years old I get really protective when it comes to my kid
getting killed because of (1) some Libertarian Don't Tread On Me sob
and (2) some knuckle head who doesn't know ****.

Why would they not just pull up the
cord from the end on the dock (where it will still be because it is
screwed down to the dock - right)?

Yea right, and my 12 year old scrambling around the dock has the
insight to put that scenario together?

Why go into the water after it?

Swimmers, working divers, reach down to wash hands off. Have you ever
worked with kids or the general public? Ever wonder why people get
washed off rocks, rolled over and crushed by logs on the beach in the
PNW, or marry the Bitch or Jerk from hell: Judgment. Hazard recognition
aint in their brain. Please don't tell me that you are so wise you
never made a mistake? Ever stub your toe or get a sunburn? Gee, I guess
you should have known better.

And if they do - well it's something to report to the Darwin people.

When it comes to the safety of your grand children I think you would be
saying something else.

In any case, unscrewing the breaker box and unplugging the cord was
sufficient.

I would say required of any normal person........ plus leave a message.

There are some things that are just plain wrong.

grandma Rosalie
"Use your own judgment and then do as I say"

Try this next time you see the cord person: "Hey stupid ****. If that
goes in the water and my kid gets zapped I am going to own your boat,
house, and your balls!"

Dad tired of idiots trying to kill my kid Bob

Rosalie B. wrote:

This whole post is a cheap shot. "Bob"

is not at issue here, and neither is...
I would definitely expect a 12 yo to be at least as able to figure out...

And 0-18 years? Get real. At 0 years they aren't going
to be running around the docks and they should be capable of thought
well before 18 years.

Sounds as though you lack a basic understanding of child development.
Go to

http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/...t/piaget.shtml

for a basic tutorial and read a bit. Interesting thing about Piaget.
The idea is decades old yet, today new brain scan technology supports
all of Piaget's work. And do not forget that most of our brains are
not completely wired until about age 20.

When was the last time you went to a public swimming pool?
To follow your line of though there is no need for lifeguards at pools
because kids should know better to walk not run and will always behave
in a safe manner.

And as I said befo So when was the last time you made a mistake? I
guess you better get rid of those smoke detectors because you'll
never leave anything on the stove and boil a pot dry.

Did you raise any kids or do you get your child raising ideas Rush
Limbaugh?

Bob

Bob

"Bob" wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote:

This whole post is a cheap shot. "Bob"

is not at issue here, and neither is...
I would definitely expect a 12 yo to be at least as able to figure out...

And 0-18 years? Get real. At 0 years they aren't going
to be running around the docks and they should be capable of thought
well before 18 years.

I have a good understanding of child development and reductio ad
absurdum arguments do not cut it with me. Whether I use smoke
detectors or not is irrelevant. (Yes I do use them but I do not cook)
Not having a life guard at a pool is never something I have ever
recommended, and it has nothing to do with the need for a parent to
take care of children when they are toddlers on a dock.

I have 4 children and 11 grandchildren, I was a school teacher in
middle school for 7 years, I coached an age group swim team for 7
years and I have studied Piaget. Having formal operational reasoning
is not a pre-requisite for knowing that you can pull a cord up out of
the water without going into the water.

Yes the hazard isn't too great for public safety if the marina end of
the cord is in the water, but I don't think it is good for the
equipment (which in the instance I cited belonged to the marina and
not to the boater).

I think the main hazard that Roger cited would be to people who had a
legitimate reason to be in the water (like divers working on a prop)
and who did not know that the cord was in the water or if the cord
fell in while they were working.

We were taught to assess probability (how likely something was to
happen) and hazard (how severe the problem would be if it happened).
In this case the severity if the breakers did not trip would be very
great, but the probability would be low. You can think of almost any
scenario where there is a possibility of something happening. That
doesn't mean that it is probable. Unplugging the marina end of the
cord removes the hazard so that the probablity is almost moot.

Sounds as though you lack a basic understanding of child development.
Go to

http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/...t/piaget.shtml

for a basic tutorial and read a bit. Interesting thing about Piaget.
The idea is decades old yet, today new brain scan technology supports
all of Piaget's work. And do not forget that most of our brains are
not completely wired until about age 20.

When was the last time you went to a public swimming pool?
To follow your line of though there is no need for lifeguards at pools
because kids should know better to walk not run and will always behave
in a safe manner.

And as I said befo So when was the last time you made a mistake? I
guess you better get rid of those smoke detectors because you'll
never leave anything on the stove and boil a pot dry.

Did you raise any kids or do you get your child raising ideas Rush
Limbaugh?

We were taught to assess probability (how likely something was to
happen) and hazard (how severe the problem would be if it happened).

Well, arguing probability doesn't make a shred of sense when you're talking
about a simple situation like this one. Effectively hard-wiring a live
electrical cord on a pier is both stupid and a violation of the electrical
code, not to mention common sense. Choosing this as a foundation for
arguing logic doesn't make much sense.

"Bill Kearney" wrote:

We were taught to assess probability (how likely something was to
happen) and hazard (how severe the problem would be if it happened).

Well, arguing probability doesn't make a shred of sense when you're talking
about a simple situation like this one. Effectively hard-wiring a live
electrical cord on a pier is both stupid and a violation of the electrical
code, not to mention common sense. Choosing this as a foundation for
arguing logic doesn't make much sense.

The probability in question was for if the live end of the cord fell
into the water. Roger's scenario had someone jumping into the water
after it, and then someone going in to rescue them. I can totally
agree that people who have no skills will often try to rescue someone
and die in the futile attempt. Happens a lot, especially in confined
space accidents.

I was questioning whether, since the cord is tied down to the pier,
the cord would not be most likely pulled out of the water from the
pier without jumping in.

Yes the screwing shut the box with the cord attached is stupid and a
violation of code, but Roger fixed that by unscrewing the box and
unplugging the cord.

I don't think anything more than that is needed until such time as
someone talks to the marina and/or the boater.

The probability in question was for if the live end of the cord fell
into the water. Roger's scenario had someone jumping into the water
after it, and then someone going in to rescue them. I can totally
agree that people who have no skills will often try to rescue someone
and die in the futile attempt. Happens a lot, especially in confined
space accidents.

It doesn't take much for someone to accidentally fall into the water. Be
they drunk, incompetent, tired, disoriented from a day on the waves or just
plain unlucky. There shouldn't be the added risk of FATALITY due to someone
leaving a LIVE cord lying about.

While I'm always a fan of the saying "Being stupid should hurt" it's not
supposed to be fatal. But I'll stop one step short of using the tired "what
about risks to CHILDREN!" shrill cry...

I don't think anything more than that is needed until such time as
someone talks to the marina and/or the boater.

This is true.