When you need her, you need her. Peggy to the rescue - I hope.

We have a Raritan PHE II head that has worked fine since owning this
boat - almost 2 years.

First sign of trouble was that the head would not evacuate in the 'dry'
position, but we found if we switched to 'flush' for a couple of
strokes, and then back to 'dry' that that would make it start working
correctly again. This happened more and more frequently.

Now, I'm not getting evacuation at all in the 'dry' postition, but it
does still seem to evacuate in the 'flush' postition, but that doesn't
do me any good because it is also filling the bowl at the same time,
and I can't get the bowl empty.

I've used my inflatable pump to force air down the vent from the
outside trying to be sure it's unclogged. Can't really tell if it is
that way - next step will be removing the vent hose from the tank and
pumping air to the outside - that should give the answer.

Do those symptoms give me any clues where to start? I really don't
have time for this now, but obviously it must be solved (we live
aboard) - Magic wand?

Thanks,

Mike.

While we are waiting for Peggie to respond to the alarm I have a
suggestion. Get a rebuild kit for your head, get out your tools, and
start taking it apart. These are very simple and straightforward
devices. If taking one apart and putting it back together is beyond
your mechanical skills, you are going to have a lot more significant
problems living on a boat.

Even if the head turns out to have a fatal problem such as a scored
pump cylinder, knowledge of its inner workings will greatly improve
your ability to deal with future problems. A heavily used head on a
live aboard boat probably needs a rebuild kit installed every year or
so anyway and this is quite likely to solve your problem by itself.

While it's apart, make sure the inside of the pump cylinder is smooth.
Slather the piston and the inside of the cylinder with Teflon grease.
I found it most easily at a bicycle shop. The auto stores just gave
me blank looks.

--

Roger Long

Hi Roger,

Your right about the knowledge of the inner workings. This is our
second boat and we have done extensive and significant work on
virtually all the other systems of the boat, so the mechanical skills
won't be an issue. I must admit though, that until now, I've been
satisfied to keep the head as a "black box" and let it work until is
stopped working.

Well, the time has come. Not looking forward to it, but am looking
forward to having it behind me, and having the knowledge and experience
in the bag to deal with future maintenance.

Thanks,

Mike.

Roger Long wrote:
While we are waiting for Peggie to respond to the alarm I have a
suggestion. Get a rebuild kit for your head, get out your tools, and
start taking it apart. These are very simple and straightforward
devices. If taking one apart and putting it back together is beyond
your mechanical skills, you are going to have a lot more significant
problems living on a boat.

Even if the head turns out to have a fatal problem such as a scored
pump cylinder, knowledge of its inner workings will greatly improve
your ability to deal with future problems. A heavily used head on a
live aboard boat probably needs a rebuild kit installed every year or
so anyway and this is quite likely to solve your problem by itself.

While it's apart, make sure the inside of the pump cylinder is smooth.
Slather the piston and the inside of the cylinder with Teflon grease.
I found it most easily at a bicycle shop. The auto stores just gave
me blank looks.

--

Roger Long

beaufortnc wrote:
We have a Raritan PHE II head that has worked fine since owning this
boat - almost 2 years.

First sign of trouble was that the head would not evacuate in the 'dry'
position, but we found if we switched to 'flush' for a couple of
strokes, and then back to 'dry' that that would make it start working
correctly again. This happened more and more frequently.

First thing I'd do is take the motor off and turn it back into a manual
toilet. The PH II is an outstanding manual toilet...putting a motor on
it--which only replaces the pump handle, it's still a manual pump--turns
it into a poor excuse for an electric toilet. 'Cuz the motor pumps the
toilet with a much shorter and faster stroke than pumping manually,
which makes the toilet much less efficient than pumping it manually.

That won't solve your problem, though...nor will rebuilding the toilet
as Roger suggested--although, if that hasn't been done in at least 5
years, it should be done anyway.

You don't say how old the toilet is, only that it's on the boat you've
only owned for two years...but unless your tank vent is blocked, I
suspect your culprit is the air valve on the toilet--especially if
you're experiencing any "backpressure" when you flush. The air valve is
the little flat nut with a hole in it on the front of the "dry/flush"
valve housing that looks like it's molded into the housing, but is
actually threaded in. Remove it...clean it...put it back (it'll prob'ly
leak a little). If that solves your problem, remove it again...wrap the
threads in Teflon tape and put it back. If it doesn't solve the problem,
order a replacement air valve from Raritan.

I've used my inflatable pump to force air down the vent from the
outside trying to be sure it's unclogged. Can't really tell if it is
that way - next step will be removing the vent hose from the tank and
pumping air to the outside - that should give the answer.

If you're referring to the tank vent, the two most common places for a
blockage are the vent thru-hull and the connection on the tank. Check
the thru-hull...scrape it out with a screwdriver blade. And don't worry
about destroying any screen in it...you're better off without it. Pull
the vent line off the tank, scrape any material out of the fitting and
the end of the hose.

If that doesn't solve your problem, let me know.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Peggie,

Did as you said for the air valve. Still having problem.

I can hold my finger over the hole in the air vent and feel the
suction. In fact, if I hold it there and keep pumping, it starts to
stall the pump. It seems that would mean it is working, or could it
still be bad? I see your logic in thinking that could be the culprit.
Main reason - When I flush in the "flush" position, it sounds like the
head is evacuating. I can't truly be sure though since the water level
doesn't drop due to the incoming seawater.

I've verified that the tank vent is clear.

Rebuild kit on the way. Should I still order an air valve, or does
that come with the rebuild kit?

Thanks for the help,

Mike.




Peggie Hall wrote:
beaufortnc wrote:
We have a Raritan PHE II head that has worked fine since owning this
boat - almost 2 years.

First sign of trouble was that the head would not evacuate in the 'dry'
position, but we found if we switched to 'flush' for a couple of
strokes, and then back to 'dry' that that would make it start working
correctly again. This happened more and more frequently.

First thing I'd do is take the motor off and turn it back into a manual
toilet. The PH II is an outstanding manual toilet...putting a motor on
it--which only replaces the pump handle, it's still a manual pump--turns
it into a poor excuse for an electric toilet. 'Cuz the motor pumps the
toilet with a much shorter and faster stroke than pumping manually,
which makes the toilet much less efficient than pumping it manually.

That won't solve your problem, though...nor will rebuilding the toilet
as Roger suggested--although, if that hasn't been done in at least 5
years, it should be done anyway.

You don't say how old the toilet is, only that it's on the boat you've
only owned for two years...but unless your tank vent is blocked, I
suspect your culprit is the air valve on the toilet--especially if
you're experiencing any "backpressure" when you flush. The air valve is
the little flat nut with a hole in it on the front of the "dry/flush"
valve housing that looks like it's molded into the housing, but is
actually threaded in. Remove it...clean it...put it back (it'll prob'ly
leak a little). If that solves your problem, remove it again...wrap the
threads in Teflon tape and put it back. If it doesn't solve the problem,
order a replacement air valve from Raritan.

I've used my inflatable pump to force air down the vent from the
outside trying to be sure it's unclogged. Can't really tell if it is
that way - next step will be removing the vent hose from the tank and
pumping air to the outside - that should give the answer.

If you're referring to the tank vent, the two most common places for a
blockage are the vent thru-hull and the connection on the tank. Check
the thru-hull...scrape it out with a screwdriver blade. And don't worry
about destroying any screen in it...you're better off without it. Pull
the vent line off the tank, scrape any material out of the fitting and
the end of the hose.

If that doesn't solve your problem, let me know.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

beaufortnc wrote:

Peggie,

Did as you said for the air valve. Still having problem.

Hmmmm...that means the air valve isn't the culprit. And you've also
verified that the holding tank vent is clear.

Without being able to do any "hands on" trouble-shooting, my psychic
powers aren't working very well on this one. But there are a couple more
possibilities I can think of before you rebuild:

1. Sea water mineral buildup in the discharge hose...I've seen it reduce
a 1.5" hose to less than 1/2"...which would make flushing difficult.
Pull the discharge hose off and take a look inside...if you see a lot of
buildup, several doses of undiluted white vinegar through the hose will
dissolve it. A cupful of it flushed through the head discharge hose once
a week will prevent it.

2. The same buildup can clog up a joker valve too...so check that. If
you haven't replaced the joker valve since you moved aboard, you need to
do that...joker valves should be replaced at least every two
years...annually if you live aboard.

If mineral buildup isn't the problem, it's time to bring in the big gun:
Call Vic Willman at Raritan...800-352-5630 x 6. Don't talk to ANYONE
else. Don't order anything except a joker valve (which is in the
rebuild kit) till you've talked to him.

One more thing just occurred to me...if you have a y-valve in the
discharge line, is it possible that it's failed? That's it's only partly
open to the tank, making it hard to flush?

Let me know what you find and/or what Vic has to say?

Peggie

Peggie Hall wrote:

beaufortnc wrote:

We have a Raritan PHE II head that has worked fine since owning this
boat - almost 2 years.

First sign of trouble was that the head would not evacuate in the 'dry'
position, but we found if we switched to 'flush' for a couple of
strokes, and then back to 'dry' that that would make it start working
correctly again. This happened more and more frequently.

First thing I'd do is take the motor off and turn it back into a manual
toilet. The PH II is an outstanding manual toilet...putting a motor on
it--which only replaces the pump handle, it's still a manual pump--turns
it into a poor excuse for an electric toilet. 'Cuz the motor pumps the
toilet with a much shorter and faster stroke than pumping manually,
which makes the toilet much less efficient than pumping it manually.

That won't solve your problem, though...nor will rebuilding the toilet
as Roger suggested--although, if that hasn't been done in at least 5
years, it should be done anyway.

You don't say how old the toilet is, only that it's on the boat you've
only owned for two years...but unless your tank vent is blocked, I
suspect your culprit is the air valve on the toilet--especially if
you're experiencing any "backpressure" when you flush. The air valve is
the little flat nut with a hole in it on the front of the "dry/flush"
valve housing that looks like it's molded into the housing, but is
actually threaded in. Remove it...clean it...put it back (it'll prob'ly
leak a little). If that solves your problem, remove it again...wrap the
threads in Teflon tape and put it back. If it doesn't solve the problem,
order a replacement air valve from Raritan.


I've used my inflatable pump to force air down the vent from the
outside trying to be sure it's unclogged. Can't really tell if it is
that way - next step will be removing the vent hose from the tank and
pumping air to the outside - that should give the answer.

If you're referring to the tank vent, the two most common places for a
blockage are the vent thru-hull and the connection on the tank. Check
the thru-hull...scrape it out with a screwdriver blade. And don't worry
about destroying any screen in it...you're better off without it. Pull
the vent line off the tank, scrape any material out of the fitting and
the end of the hose.

If that doesn't solve your problem, let me know.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304



--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

You've got a blockage in the discharge line somewhere. Try cycling your
Y-valve if you have one between the toilet and tank / discharge port.
This would be evidenced by the toilet filling up with water when you
try to flush in the wet position, and no evacuation in the dry. Is that
what's happening?

My guess is that the rubber foot valve flapper is not seating properly,
causing the waste to move around it.

It may be blocked with a lump of something or other. A good cleaning of
the lower part of the pump may solve your problem. Taking it apart
without renewing the parts may be penny wise and pound foolish.

Terry K

Head problem solved.

Rebuilt entire head with kit from Raritan. Found the problem.

We had been using some of those cheap toilet fresheners that hang on
the side of the bowl - basically the same thing as the cakes that are
put in men's urinals. Anyway, a piece of that cake had dissolved and
broken off like a little iceberg and worked its way through the
plumbing and was stuck in the joker valve, not letting it close
properly. So it was a two way street down there.

All is working now. Only thing is I'm not sure if we put enough grease
in the cylinder area where the piston rides up and down. We cleaned it
all out very well, etc..., but with the new gasket, the pump is
difficult to cycle, but it works. (The old cylinder gasket was worn
completely smooth, but the new one has ridges on it to help it seat)

Everything works, but we're maybe a little concerned that the
difficulty of the pumping action may stress the components too much. I
assume, however, that this is only temporary, and that the action will
eventually become easier.

Nevertheless, the head clearly needed a rebuild and cleaning, and we
are glad that it is done and that we now have that notch of experience
on our belts. One more mystery uncovered.

Thanks for all the advice.

Mike.


Terry K wrote:
My guess is that the rubber foot valve flapper is not seating properly,
causing the waste to move around it.

It may be blocked with a lump of something or other. A good cleaning of
the lower part of the pump may solve your problem. Taking it apart
without renewing the parts may be penny wise and pound foolish.

Terry K

beaufortnc wrote:
Head problem solved.

Rebuilt entire head with kit from Raritan. Found the problem.

We had been using some of those cheap toilet fresheners that hang on
the side of the bowl - basically the same thing as the cakes that are
put in men's urinals.

Don't do that any more. Don't use ANY household or institutional
chemical bowl cleaner--or any other chemical household cleaning
products, either. They're all murderous to the rubber parts in toilets
and break down hose resistance to odor permeation.

All is working now. Only thing is I'm not sure if we put enough grease
in the cylinder area where the piston rides up and down.

If you were sparing with it, you prob'ly didn't. The whole tube in the
rebuild kit is supposed to go into the pump...not just a dab on each of
the o-rings etc. Take the pump off the base again and put the whole rest
of the tube into it...pump a few times to spread it all over the inside
of the cylinder. That's all the lubrication it should need for a year.
And you should do it again annually as preventive maintenance if you
don't want to rebuild the pump more often than every 5-6 years.


We cleaned it
all out very well, etc..., but with the new gasket, the pump is
difficult to cycle, but it works. (The old cylinder gasket was worn
completely smooth...

Possibly eaten away by the bowl "cakes."

Everything works, but we're maybe a little concerned that the
difficulty of the pumping action may stress the components too much. I
assume, however, that this is only temporary, and that the action will
eventually become easier.

It won't. Not till there's sufficient lubrication in the pump.

Putting a motor on a PH II pumps it with a much shorter and faster
stroke than slower more deliberate pumping manually. The shorter faster
stroke means it takes longer to prime...which means the rubber parts in
the pump are subjected to more dry friction, wearing 'em out MUCH faster
unless the pump is VERY well lubricated. The smartest thing you could do
is remove the motor...but you prob'ly won't. So you'd better make sure
there's plenty of thick teflon grease in the pump.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304