Peggie,

I hear what your saying about the electric motor, but in reality it
doesn't seem to be true.

When we had the motor disconnected and pumped manually, then
reconnected, we carefully looked at the stroke length, and they are
almost identical whether pumping manually or with the motor. We were
all set to remove the motor and pump manually - we have no problem with
that. But, after carefully comparing the stroke lengths, it doesn't
seem to be any different. So, left the motor on.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Mike.


Peggie Hall wrote:
beaufortnc wrote:
Head problem solved.

Rebuilt entire head with kit from Raritan. Found the problem.

We had been using some of those cheap toilet fresheners that hang on
the side of the bowl - basically the same thing as the cakes that are
put in men's urinals.

Don't do that any more. Don't use ANY household or institutional
chemical bowl cleaner--or any other chemical household cleaning
products, either. They're all murderous to the rubber parts in toilets
and break down hose resistance to odor permeation.

All is working now. Only thing is I'm not sure if we put enough grease
in the cylinder area where the piston rides up and down.

If you were sparing with it, you prob'ly didn't. The whole tube in the
rebuild kit is supposed to go into the pump...not just a dab on each of
the o-rings etc. Take the pump off the base again and put the whole rest
of the tube into it...pump a few times to spread it all over the inside
of the cylinder. That's all the lubrication it should need for a year.
And you should do it again annually as preventive maintenance if you
don't want to rebuild the pump more often than every 5-6 years.


We cleaned it
all out very well, etc..., but with the new gasket, the pump is
difficult to cycle, but it works. (The old cylinder gasket was worn
completely smooth...

Possibly eaten away by the bowl "cakes."

Everything works, but we're maybe a little concerned that the
difficulty of the pumping action may stress the components too much. I
assume, however, that this is only temporary, and that the action will
eventually become easier.

It won't. Not till there's sufficient lubrication in the pump.

Putting a motor on a PH II pumps it with a much shorter and faster
stroke than slower more deliberate pumping manually. The shorter faster
stroke means it takes longer to prime...which means the rubber parts in
the pump are subjected to more dry friction, wearing 'em out MUCH faster
unless the pump is VERY well lubricated. The smartest thing you could do
is remove the motor...but you prob'ly won't. So you'd better make sure
there's plenty of thick teflon grease in the pump.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Followup question:

Peggie Hall wrote:
All is working now. Only thing is I'm not sure if we put enough grease
in the cylinder area where the piston rides up and down.

If you were sparing with it, you prob'ly didn't. The whole tube in the
rebuild kit is supposed to go into the pump...not just a dab on each of
the o-rings etc. Take the pump off the base again and put the whole rest
of the tube into it...pump a few times to spread it all over the inside
of the cylinder. That's all the lubrication it should need for a year.
And you should do it again annually as preventive maintenance if you
don't want to rebuild the pump more often than every 5-6 years.


For a pump which is already in service (and was rebuilt with nearly all
of the supplied grease going onto the piston O-ring), this is how I
regreased it:

I took off the base, put the piston at the highest point, and then
thoroughly swabbed the entire cylinder (since it was difficult to
control, I did the part under the stroke a bit, too) with the
non-petroleum swimming pool supplier Teflon grease you'd previously
recommended.

This was done when I didn't succeed in making the dry pump go
completely dry (from another thread). I've since learned to expect
that some of it will fall back, and it's not a problem. However...

Two questions result from that and the above.

First, is that sufficient, or do I need to take the piston out and put
it on the O-ring?

Second, the pool stuff is markedly thicker than that provided in the
rebuild kits. That's resulted in (well, perceived, anyway) greater
pumping effort than before. As yet, I've only been using fresh
drinking water (our tanks), run through the sink drain Tee on the
intake, so I don't know if that's a factor. The second question is
whether the higher viscosity (not actually at all viscous - it won't
run out of the tube of you hold it upside down) and apparent higher
effort is "OK" or a sign of some problem and the need to buy something
else?

Thanks, as always...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4 - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Skip Gundlach wrote:
For a pump which is already in service (and was rebuilt with nearly all
of the supplied grease going onto the piston O-ring), this is how I
regreased it:

I took off the base, put the piston at the highest point, and then
thoroughly swabbed the entire cylinder (since it was difficult to
control, I did the part under the stroke a bit, too) with the
non-petroleum swimming pool supplier Teflon grease you'd previously
recommended.

You went to all the trouble to swap the inside of the pump? You could
have just put a VERY healthy squirt of the grease into it and pumped a
couple of times to spread it all over the in side of the cylinder?
Swabbing leaves a very thin coating...whereas a good squirt of it gets
onto everything in pump...any excess will flush out without any harm to
anything.


Two questions result from that and the above.

First, is that sufficient, or do I need to take the piston out and put
it on the O-ring?

You used so little that you'll prob'ly have to do it again in a few
months, so don't worry about it till then.


Second, the pool stuff is markedly thicker than that provided in the
rebuild kits.

The thicker the better...it doesn't wash out as fast.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Because it makes little sense without it, I apologize for leaving in
the entirety of the conversation until my followup:

Peggie Hall wrote:
Skip Gundlach wrote:
For a pump which is already in service (and was rebuilt with nearly all
of the supplied grease going onto the piston O-ring), this is how I
regreased it:

I took off the base, put the piston at the highest point, and then
thoroughly swabbed the entire cylinder (since it was difficult to
control, I did the part under the stroke a bit, too) with the
non-petroleum swimming pool supplier Teflon grease you'd previously
recommended.

You went to all the trouble to swap the inside of the pump? You could
have just put a VERY healthy squirt of the grease into it and pumped a
couple of times to spread it all over the in side of the cylinder?
Swabbing leaves a very thin coating...whereas a good squirt of it gets
onto everything in pump...any excess will flush out without any harm to
anything.

I've got terminal density, I think, as I recall your recommendation to
this effect (long) before. However, on followup then, it was my
recollection that the PHIIs don't let you do that.

So, assuming I misremember (happens more and more lately), where,
exactly, do I put this heavy squirt? As I (think I) understand how
this thing works, if I were to take it off the base as I did, and
merely put a large dollop of the grease in it, reassemble, and pump
away, it would immediately go out the joker, other than that which
managed to scrape against the sides.

Or, is there somewhere else I put it? As I did it, I put a pretty good
layer around the cylinder. My first attempt (years ago, now) had me
putting it down the flush/dry valve, and the output to the bowl,
because I couldn't see anywhere else (which was supposed to be so easy)
which, of course, thoroughly lubed the ball and seat and made the seal
not very good there.

So, apparently, I have no picture at all of how to put in the grease of
which I now have a very sizeable (well, at least as compared to the
stuff wihch comes with the rebuild kits) tube.

Pardon my density on this matter. I'm pretty sure I could field
assemble, in the dark, blindfolded, one of these units, so I think I
know where stuff is. How do I lube this better than I did? Take off
the base, put a tablespoon of grease on the bottom of the piston? Or
on the flapper weight? and expect it will make its way to the O-ring
and walls? Or through one of the two ball valve locations? If
swabbing the cylinder is trouble, I can't imagine I'm supposed to
disassemble the piston/cylinder, which would be necessary to grease it
through the top of the piston, the only other possiblility short of
removing the air valve of which I'm aware.

And, of course, if there's a simpler way, while I don't mind (I've got
long fingers) doing it, if I don't have to swab/slather the cylinder,
I'm all for it :{))

Thanks, as usual, from your densest student...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4 - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

I've rebuilt my PHII's several times, and you really have to
disassemble it to lube the piston properly. It sure would be nice if I
could figure out how to do it without disassembling though... I
basically let it go a couple of years then rebuild it, lubing it at
that time. In the interim, I lube the shaft and the wet/dry rotor
several times.

Skip Gundlach wrote:


So, assuming I misremember (happens more and more lately), where,
exactly, do I put this heavy squirt? As I (think I) understand how
this thing works, if I were to take it off the base as I did, and
merely put a large dollop of the grease in it, reassemble, and pump
away, it would immediately go out the joker, other than that which
managed to scrape against the sides.

Or, is there somewhere else I put it? As I did it, I put a pretty good
layer around the cylinder. My first attempt (years ago, now) had me
putting it down the flush/dry valve, and the output to the bowl,
because I couldn't see anywhere else (which was supposed to be so easy)
which, of course, thoroughly lubed the ball and seat and made the seal
not very good there.

Skip Gundlach wrote:
So, assuming I misremember (happens more and more lately), where,
exactly, do I put this heavy squirt? As I (think I) understand how
this thing works, if I were to take it off the base as I did, and
merely put a large dollop of the grease in it, reassemble, and pump
away, it would immediately go out the joker, other than that which
managed to scrape against the sides.

Here's what Raritan says:

"Remove the pump from the base, pull the piston all the way up, then
smear the grease all around the pump cylinder, beneath the piston.
Sure, some it it will be forced out through the joker valve, but
there's no other way to lubricate it. No, you don't have to ids-
assemble the pump (although, to some people, just removing the pump
from the base might be considering disassembling the head. )"
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Skip Gundlach wrote:
That's *exactly* what I did.
I took off the base, put the piston at the highest point, and then
thoroughly swabbed the entire cylinder (since it was difficult to
control, I did the part under the stroke a bit, too) with the
non-petroleum swimming pool supplier Teflon grease you'd previously
recommended.")

How was that insufficient (as asserted in your last)?

It was your use of the word "swabbed," Skip, instead of "smeared."
Knowing your penchant for meticulous detail, that produced a vision of
your using a Q-Tip to meticulously coat the cylinder with a thin coat of
the grease--and then you asked if you should also put some on the
o-ring...vs giving it a healthy squirt and using whatever works to
spread it all over the inside the cylinder, which would also coat the
o-ring and everything else on the pump shaft when you pumped. You can't
use too much of it--it's water soluble, so any excess that's forced out
won't hurt anything and would actually benefit any y-valve in the head
discharge line, but you can use too little to last very long...and it
appeared that's what you'd done.

And unless you "swabbed" at least a tablespoon of it, I'm still not sure
you didn't.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

I say try a poop sized dollop in the bottom pipe as far as you dare
push it, plugging it up, then flush slowly with a minimum of water.
Chances are two of three times that it will get pumped and slathered
through all the areas that need it. Would hot water help, d'ya think?
Might work out better than dissassembly again. That stuff floats,
right? Does that mean we can hope to sequester a dollop in the top part
of the pump, to bounce around for a while, doing it's work?

Now, about the environmental aspect of flushing all those hydro flouro
carbon artificial teflon greases...

How about bacon fat, or even vaseline?

Terry K