Why is it that no one ever suggests that it's time to bring parasitic
entities such as "insurance companies" to heel?

Insurance companies aren't any more parasitic than any other
companies.

.... Something that meets the needs of the
insured rather than the greed of the stockholders of the insurance
companies.


If "the greed of the stockholders" is a problem, you can
calm yourself thinking about the lack of barriers to buying
insurance company stock yourself.

Frankly, most publicly held corporations hand over far more
money to their Board of Directors and particularly to the
few selected company officers than they do to their
stockholders.


Paul Cassel wrote:
Then every policy could be like social security.

Yep.
Sort of like the way not-for-profit insurance companies
operate now.

.. Buster - government is
the PROBLEM. It's not the solution to anything.

Ah, that's what I like. A nice calm well-reasoned and
non-ideological answer for everything!

Insurance of all types is legalized gambling. They don't
even get a house percentage... they do hire some very clever
mathematicians to try and tilt the odds slightly in their
favor, but if they tilt too much then they lose business to
somebody offering the same coverage at lower price.

Now, if somebody were to talk about reducing the obscurity &
complexity of the legal language in insurance contracts, and
maybe talk about outlawing certain kinds of advertising (or
just effectively enforcing current laws against fraud), NOW
we'd be getting somewhere.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I pay about $330 for Allstate insurance on a 40 footer. My last boat,
a 27 footer, I paid slightly less for. I made a claim when I dismasted,
and Allstate came through and treated me fairly. I was pleased it
worked at all. Mostly, I carry insurance for liability, and for
medical to help those that might get hurt. Sure, it's great to get
compensated for the loss of your boat, but if it's your own fault,
well, take some responsibility.

However much I like Allstate Insurance, I'm farily certain they will
not insure in the hurricane "box" during that season. But then who
wants to be there during that season anyway?

As far as the political debate regarding gubmint vs private, any
organization that is HUGE is likely slow to respond. I've heard endless
complaints about the government, some of which are quite valid. On the
other hand, there are tons of private corporations that suck big time
too, can't get out of their own way, lousy customer service, etc. So I
think it's more about size and organization than Government Vs Private
Sector.

Luc,,, I just spoke to a fellow who has his boat in Ft Myers , Fla. His
insurance company told him either move the boat or they were dropping him ..

Now he doesn't know what to do.. He said most of the old hurricane holes are
out do to developement.

He said that is why so many boats are for sale in Florida. He said that his
boating buddys are planning now for the hurricane season. Many are getting
their boats was up rivers to avoid the mess.

=================
"Luc" wrote in message
oups.com...
I pay about $330 for Allstate insurance on a 40 footer. My last boat,
a 27 footer, I paid slightly less for. I made a claim when I dismasted,
and Allstate came through and treated me fairly. I was pleased it
worked at all. Mostly, I carry insurance for liability, and for
medical to help those that might get hurt. Sure, it's great to get
compensated for the loss of your boat, but if it's your own fault,
well, take some responsibility.

However much I like Allstate Insurance, I'm farily certain they will
not insure in the hurricane "box" during that season. But then who
wants to be there during that season anyway?

As far as the political debate regarding gubmint vs private, any
organization that is HUGE is likely slow to respond. I've heard endless
complaints about the government, some of which are quite valid. On the
other hand, there are tons of private corporations that suck big time
too, can't get out of their own way, lousy customer service, etc. So I
think it's more about size and organization than Government Vs Private
Sector.

prodigal1 writes:

Those who engage in ad hominem populate
my killfile.

Heheh. For minute on my fuzzy display I thought you wrote, "populate my
kibble".

Luc wrote:
I pay about $330 for Allstate insurance on a 40 footer. My last boat,
a 27 footer, I paid slightly less for. I made a claim when I dismasted,

Hi Luc:
I pay $304 for Allstate insurance on my 39' .
I ahve not had a claim yet. But your experience sounds reasuring. That
wa my big conmcern. A cheep premium is wothless if the company denies
your claim or drops y9ou after a claim.

I wnated to use USAA. Really rock bottom rates for auto......... but
they would not touch boats over 20 yo. Darn.

Anybody else have Allstate or another company that is cheeper that
Luc's $330 or my $304?
Bob

Bob wrote:
Luc wrote:
I pay about $330 for Allstate insurance on a 40 footer. My last
boat, a 27 footer, I paid slightly less for. I made a claim when I
dismasted,

Hi Luc:
I pay $304 for Allstate insurance on my 39' .
I ahve not had a claim yet. But your experience sounds reasuring. That
wa my big conmcern. A cheep premium is wothless if the company denies
your claim or drops y9ou after a claim.

Those rates seem to be somewaht cheaper than British rates, and we don't get
any huirrcanes over here!

As for gas, try $160 per litre for starters. The pips are squeaking, and the
government is about to abolish the "red diesel" scheme for pleasure boaters.

You've a long way to go yet! :-)

Dennis.

"Dave" wrote in message
...

I'm not sure your aircraft experience carries over to pleasure
boats. My
impression is that there aren't many lawyers out their seeking
to make big
bucks from pleasure boat accidents. (Thank God for small
favors.) But I
suppose if we see a couple of class actions in the area that
could change.

There isn't enough money in smaller boats for lawyers to 'go for'
their manufacturers or their owners. And for larger vessels
there's an excellent international insurance market - very
competitive - and it's easy for them to register in more friendly
locations than USA.

Small boat insurance is very similar to car insurance - lots of
little people with not a lot of money. Only a few who are really
well off. And, unlike cars, very few healthy big corporate
manufacturers to chase for product liability. I just don't see
Roger's aviation scenario developing.

But I do see high risk areas being identified by insurers. Small
vessels and hurricane seasons don't go well together. Small, high
energy vessels can do a lot of damage. People without skills or
experience are more likely to create damage.

As for those who have been criticising the profit motive of
insurers (and suggesting public insurance) earlier in this thread,
most of them did not understand the business model. Insurance is a
cash flow business. You borrow cash up front. You invest that cash
and make most of your profit from those investments. At
statistically predictable rates, you have to pay back these loans.
If you assessed your risks well, you pay back a little less than
you received and your business grows. And vice versa. But you
don't know the answers to that equation until three or four years
after the event.

By all means let public insurance compete with private insurance.
But you need some safeguards to make sure that that cash flow
doesn't disappear into the public spending maw. Because it's going
to have to be re-paid! By whom? The taxpayer.
--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
Describing some Greek and Spanish cruising areas

"prodigal1" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:17:04 -0400, JimH wrote:

Public insurance translated means government run insurance.............no
thanks.

I'm presuming you're American (osudad) and have never had any experience
with public insurance, so I have to ask myself on what your rejection of
the idea is based.

I take it your not an American...........otherwise you would know that
whatever our Government touches turns corrupt or bloated with
beauracracy........and most inefficient. The one exception is the Post
Office.


Ideology? pfftt.... There are places in the world
where this works very well.


As I am sure there are places in the workld where it does not.


People get the coverage they want, at rates
they find acceptable AND profits go toward public services like schools,
roads, hospitals... What's not to like?

That's funny!



Why are you so bitter about insurance company's?

I've had long experience with private insurance.....no thanks. Rates and
policies are legalised theft and extortion.

They are in the business
of making a profit for their shareholders....

My point exactly, their primary reasons for being are not to meet the
needs of those paying for their services, but rather to increase profit.

Yep. And controled by the States and most importantly the public by simply
going to another provider when rates are out of line.

And they must also meet the needs of the customers.....otherwise the
customer goes elsewhere.



It just boggles my mind that so many cannot see the inherent
inappropriateness of this scenario.

and adjust rates accordingly
to attain that goal. Don't like what one company charges....find
another. There are plenty to go around.

And where I live you can't find a statistically significant difference
in premiums between any of the companies.

Where do you live?



Don't like the high rates you
pay because you live in hurricane alley.......then move.

Don't live in hurricane alley...top end of tornado alley. I shouldn't
have to even contemplate moving because the company I pay large $$ to
insure against potential loss, inflates rates to show profits more in line
with stock trader's "earnings expectations" than to cover actual losses
and still show a profit. Big difference there.

We are all paying for the hurricane damage to your boats, cars and
houses with our insurance premiums and with our taxes through government
subsidies and other government spending. I for one am damn tired of
doing so.

So pay up or move. Don't ask me to continue to subsidize you though.

now I understand, you're allright, but anyone who suffers a loss can go
pound salt.

No, anyone who chooses to live in a hurricane prone area needs to pay the
price for doing so. It is all about choice.


Nice. I don't get it. You along with
tens of millions of other premium payers will willingly keep coughing up
more and more $$ for less and less coverage, all the while blaming the
increasing cost of premiums on claimants --which isn't at all the main
cause-- and yet never consider for a moment that there might be a better
insurance solution that meets the insurance customer's needs first.
Absolutely bizarre.


You know absolutely nothing about insurance. Your last statement proved it.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:11:10 -0400, Wayne.B
said:

While nobody else "forces" people to insure their boats, my impression is
that most boats are insured whether or not purchased on credit.

If you have assets other than your boat, and hopefully you do, going
without insurance is extremely unwise. One serious liability or
environmental claim could force you into bankruptcy. If nothing else,
the insurance company will defend the claim with seriously competent
lawyers, at their expense.

That's a slightly different issue. What people seem to have trouble
grasping
is that insurance is for risks you can't afford to assume yourself. You
pay
someone else to take on those risks. For those you can afford, you carry
them yourself and save the money you'd otherwise pay an insurer.


Bingo!

Frankly, most publicly held corporations hand over far more
money to their Board of Directors and particularly to the
few selected company officers than they do to their
stockholders.


Dave wrote:
Fees paid to board members in that capacity are pretty small in light of the
liabilities they undertake and the time many spend.

Bull****.

WTF can any one person do that's worth 200 million dollars?
Especially when the shareholders are losing money and the
employees are losing their jobs? And many officers at the
big corps would sneer at this as lunch money. Not even
enough to buy a Senator.

The publicly held corporation is one of the truest forms of
democracy, but it has been widely abused. As more and more
people come to realize that their retirement plans are built
on quicksand, this will probably become a blazing political
issue... and rightly so.

DSK