On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:28:11 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

The FAA still
does the annoying, Mickey mouse, and useless stuff while the insurance
companies determine who gets to fly.

Believe it. We don't want it to come to this in boating.

This has already happened with larger boats (60+), and I'm actually
fine with it. Most large yacht policies specify requirements for
captain and crew.

Da Kine wrote:
I'm a licensed USCG captain and ASA instructor. Having said that, any
license that is required for boating on anything other then inland
waterways is easy to shoot down and should be shot point blank.

OOhhh.... Gee, a real captain. So you signed the Small Vessel Sea
Searvice Form testifying that you owned a 16' boat and lied about
having 360 days on the river with uncle Bubba when you were sixteen? I
guess that 25 GRT Master Inland waters was really tough to get.

So why bother with that caaptain license? Isn't that just another
example of liberal big government manipulating you?

Sarcastic Bob

No, I drive cargo ships from time to time, have about 25,000 miles of
open ocean towing, do deliveries from here to there like from
California to Florida, Florida to either North Carolina or New York and
back, and a few to Asia, Drive charters and instruct on all kinds of
boats with all kinds of formats from ASA 101 to working with Denis
Conner in San Diego on Stars and Stripes. Most of the boats I drive for
charter don't exceed 120' and for fun I captain tall ships, or at
least the smaller ones like Swift of Ipswich in Los Angeles. If you
want to count mate work, my resume really gets rather extensive.

You obviously haven't learned what you should have about maritime law
and where it came from. If you did you wouldn't be so willfully
ignorant. I suggest you have some fun and read a little.

As for my background, Any other questions? .... Give me a little time
to get back to you if you do because I am only in port until morning
and then I will be underway again for a spell and may not have
connection.

P.S., Bite me!

In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

Aviation judgements go through the roof compared similar injury in
other activities. It's not just the pilots insurance but the costs
past on in the cost of everything else. About 20% of the cost of an
airplane is the manufacturer's liability insurance load.

Multi-million judgements against manufacturers on 20 year-old planes,
nevermind that the "pilot" had a .15 blood alcohol and he "flew" the
plane into the ground 1 mile short at full power.....

Got so bad that no small (2-4 seat) planes were made commercially in the
US for 15-20 years. Think one of them got back in the biz a couple of
years ago.

I carry full *marine* insurance though I am a programmer for the biz and
know the odds intimately, but I sail a *lot* where there are are 'way
too many lawyers.

I also don't worry about licensing requirements. Passed my FAA written
on the first try with 97%. (at the time, about 60% flunked the first
try.) BUT, it's a bother and won't do anything meaningful.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

"Roger Long" wrote in message
news
Insurance is common. I'm not aware of it being mandatory
anywhere but it never occurred to me to go without it so I
didn't check. It is reasonable in cost and not hard to get.
They want to see a survey and some sailing references so, if I'd
said, "I just bought this boat and I don't know nuttin'.", I
might not have gotten the insurance.

I made a comment on jury behavior in another thread. Aviation
judgements go through the roof compared similar injury in other
activities. It's not just the pilots insurance but the costs
past on in the cost of everything else. About 20% of the cost
of an airplane is the manufacturer's liability insurance load.

Well, the conclusions I'm forming a

1. Aviation insurance effects are not a good model for boat
insurance effects.

2. Third party boat insurance is common in USA, therefore
inexpensive, but not universal.

3. Making third party insurance compulsory for boats over a
certain size/speed may have unwanted side effects, which should be
investigated. Some side effects are the need for policing, and
penalties for infringement. Ingenuity and use of the market place
should deal with these, but there may be other cosiderations which
my limited imagination isn't coping with. Think car insurance?

4. If those side effects don't kill the idea, this does sound
like a sensible alternative to licencing. It deals with boat
damage by third parties. As the market develops, the insurers will
start to differentiate between their clients, implementing cheaper
policies for some groups (licenced sailors? Those who've attended
training courses? Those who don't have claims?).

Indeed, why are licences so often a chosen control method in law?
They don't deal with the unwanted side effects of ignorance or
carelessness.


--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
for opinions comparing Greek cruising areas - and Spain

They don't deal with the unwanted side effects of ignorance or
carelessness.

Because with people being part of the equation those variables can't be
eliminated.

"Bill Kearney" wrote in message
t...

They don't deal with the unwanted side effects of ignorance or
carelessness.

Because with people being part of the equation those variables
can't be
eliminated.

Agreed. With insurance though - damage (of any sort) can be
repaired to some degree. Excepting for those who choose to be
outside the law by not insuring. Although with European car
insurance (and I suspect in the US too) the insurers run a pool of
cash to cover victims of un-insured drivers.
--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
for opinions comparing Greek cruising areas - N Spain too

Roger ,, are you a Communist? What part of "leave me, my boat, my life, my
life on the water" out of your socialist ideas don't you get?

A fee isn't a tax? Sure,,, no, it is a fee. Are you truly so nuts as
this?

The reason we, me, us, go sailing is to get away from authority. To be
FREE. Let the wind drive us forward, the sea our friend ....

But that isn't good enough for you ,, nope. You want to ruin sailing.



================================================== ===========================
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I'm probably like a lot of you folks. I would like the effects of
licensing, knowing that the burdened vessel converging with me and sort of
wavering around in his course actually does know which way to turn, not
having my tax dollars spent looking for bozo's, etc. I would also like the
freedom of making my own decisions about my competence. It would also be
nice not to have a system come to the waters I sail where there is an
incentive for uniforms who were told to go out and "show that the system
is working" but don't actually know how to come alongside or use fenders
waste a portion of my afternoon looking for little pieces of paper.

Everything about the way NJ has implemented the system strikes me as a
good example of how government always finds a way to inconvenience people
and restrict their freedoms without actually doing anything constructive
about the problem. I don't know what's going on in CT but it's probably
another reason to stay north of Cape Cod.

It will probably come to Maine too but it will probably come last.
Hopefully, it will be after I'm no longer too concerned about it. If it
does come become an issue, it isn't going to do any good to spout some of
the nonsense in the mega thread I started below. We aren't the NRA with a
constitutional amendment backing us up. Some kind of alternative will have
to be presented. Here's just an idea.

Establish a fee (can't be a tax because taxes can't be raised or added
anymore) of, maybe, 1% on the sale of every new and used boat. If the
buyer can produce a certificate from a recognized course such as the power
squadron, or maybe a no claim history from insurance of a vessel of
similar size, the seller can submit a copy of that instead of the fee. If
someone just wants the boat and is willing to pay the fee, then it goes to
safe boating education and printing more of those silly hand outs.

I'm not advocating doing this either but, if licensing talk starts up this
way, I want some alternative to present.


--

Roger Long

Roger, if boat licensing ever comes to my sailing grounds, I am leaving the
USA. I've about had it with this F'n country as it is ,,,, this will just
be the last straw.

The USA .. can't control the millions of illegals who have invaded us ..
gives away millions of dollars to some stinking pit like Iraq,,,, we are
fighting wars in 2 or 3 countries ,, we are being taxed off the planet ,,,
can't buy a house because it cost too much ,,, our public schools suck ,,,,
the politicians are corrupt ...

And now you want to give some fat, dumb, related to the politician,,,
asshole the right to stop me on the high seas so he can decide if I'm
worthy?


That is it for me ... you won't be seeing me in the USA ... good bye.


One good thing about the world,,, lots of water...


I hope your happy.. Communist.


--------------------------------------------------------------
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Look the thing all of us most want to avoid is anything that gives land
lubber bureaucrats reasons to put guys in uniforms out on the water with
occasional quotas of a certain number of boaters to pull over to "show the
flag", "the system is working", etc. Having your afternoon interrupted by
the Coast Guard is bad enough but, at least they are minimally trained and
almost always professional to a fault.

Do you really want someone besides the Coast Guard driving around with
binoculars looking up your boat name and registration numbers and typing
them into a laptop to decide if they should waste a half hour of your
afternoon?

I should mention BTW that I am a Harbormaster. I don't want this kind of
thing added to my duties any more than I want to be the object of it when
I'm boating somewhere else.

--

Roger Long



"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:29:57 GMT, "Roger Long"
said:

Besides, how do you suspend a right with out a license to
take away? Do you issue a piece of paper that says the person is not
permitted to operate a vessel? Do the boating police then board and
say, "We want to check if you have an operation suspension
certificate, please show it to us?"

Simple. When the person is convicted of, say, drunk boating, the sentence
may include suspension of his right to operate a boat. If he's stopped
again, the boating police or CG calls in to check whether he's been
suspended. If he has, he's charged with operating while his right to
operate
was suspended--just as if he had that little piece of plastic and it was
taken away from him.

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:30:06 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
wrote:

Let the wind drive us forward, the sea our friend ....

Even though you may love the water, never think of the sea as your
friend.

A friend cares about you, but the sea is indifferent.

/end sermon