Doug's characterization of what? Sounds like you missed my sarcasm in
the line you quoted above. My point was that the "marketing materials"
Dave cited to support his contention that pwc's are marketed to
encourage aggressive, irresponsible riding, were pretty obviously poor
references to site in that they referred to models not manufactured for
several years.

In contrast I provided an exhaustive, extensive reference of the
marketing materials currently being used to promote pwc's by all of the
major manufacturers. I quoted their advertisements pretty much in
their entireity for almost all of the current models. I successfully
demonstrated that the primary factors being advertised were family use,
comfort, modern clean-running technology, storage space, mild
recreational boating, and once again, unlike apparently anyone else in
the conversation, I know about this from extensive personal experience
with pwc's and the people who enjoy them. I've helped friends and
other people make purchase decisions on pwc's and know who these people
are and what kind of experience they are looking for - family
recreation with their children, enjoyment of being on the water, going
to lunch or the beach or fishing or just enjoying beautiful scenery -
not reckless aggressive antics. In fact in a few cases, pwc'ers, real
enthusiasts and activists in the sport, have been among some of the
most experienced and knowledgeable boaters I"ve known.

Look, one aspect of pwc's is that they're pretty easy to buy and get
onto. There's a democratic aspect to them that does result in newbies
not knowing much what they're doing. My first season out there, eight
years ago now, I definitely flew too fast through some anchorages and
no-wake zones and probably annoyed some fellow boaters due to my
ignorance. I hadn't had any training or boating experience. My bad
behavior was not due to any inherent character flaw, or some evil
quality of the type of boat I was piloting, but to lack of knowledge
and experience, and with guidance from more experienced riders that I
started riding with, I quickly learned the ropes and what to do, and
for the succeeding eight years you wouldn't have seen me do anything
like that. Obviously the same is true for any rider or boater - given
a little more time and experience and knowledge, they will learn more
and their behavior habits will improve. Hopefully if you see a pwc'er
or other boater operating recklessly or breaking rules, you would point
it out to them in a non-antagonistic, non-attitudinous manner that
would help them see the error of their ways rather than giving them the
finger or deciding out of hand that all pwc'ers must be losers. That's
why I know for sure that requiring training in the basics is a good
idea and would help, already is helping in many states, minimizet his
kind of behavior. A great percentage of the problems that occur
involve renters of pwc's - and that type of user has been basically
eliminated in a stroke in NYC by requiring the certification, the
rental business has gone away, and we responsible, knowledgeable,
experienced riders support that change and welcome it - it makes the
waters safer, and will eventually help counteract the prejudice,
stereotyping, and outdated notions so many people have formed about us
in the past.

You guys are all ganging up on me cruelly with more insults piled on, I
don't know why it is so difficult to admit that you don't know much
about the topic, that you are prejucided about it and uninterested in
becoming more informed, or reconsidering your impressions in the light
of newer information.

I don't know who Jim Cate is or what you're talking about and I'm sorry
if my posts aren't entertaining you sufficiently. But I bring up valid
points and I have every right to make my case - that you are being
unfairly insulting toward me and my family and friends when you say
unfounded inflammatory things like "responsible pwc operation is very
rare." ALL My friends and family engage in responsible boating with
our pwc's every weekend, and so do dozens, hundreds, thousands of
other people in waterways everywhere, in riding groups across the
country exactly analogous to any other boating groups of people who
enjoy recreation on the water and in the outdoors. PWC'ers often
conduct massive charity rides and events, are involved in important
rescue operations that couldn't be executed by any other kind of
vessel.

If you saw me and my friends on the water, you would know that the
things you say simply aren't true about pwc'ers in general. We boat
considerately, responsibly, safely, knowledgeably, and undergo
challenging adventures (long distance explorations, cruises, multi-day
trips) all the time. There are lots of bad apples but they don't
represent all of us. I will not relent in telling you about it until
you just admit that you're not experts, your experience is limited and
not particularly well-informed beyond the range of your
"observations," you don't personally know many or any pwc'ers and thus
arent' informed of making blanket judgments or pronouncements about all
of us, and that there is a great deal on this topic that you are not
aware of. You are entitled to be unaware, but admit that you don't
know much about it. You don't really know who generally buys and rides
the things and how they use them, or how these things have evoloved
over the last five to ten years from the way things used to be.

I'm not sure why it's so important to keep insulting me personally, I
don't deserve it, I'm just defending myself, my family, children and
friends. If you guys had open minds or any intellectual curiosity at
all you would take another look at this issue and realize that things
are changing fast.

richforman