In article , DSK
wrote:

prodigal1 wrote:
You're missing the point entirely. Licensing has little to do with
safety and everything to do with a chain of "accountability" in the
event of an accident. It isn't about "corrupt politicians" out to get
your money...good god what drivel -I know- you didn't write that. It's
about the insurance companies! Who has to pay when someone gets
injured/killed/sued. No license=No insurance=personal liability

I'd agree that lack of personal responsibility is a big part
of the problem... and requiring a license isn't going to
restore that.

Instead, let's just enforce existing laws to the full extent.

Rule 1 has always been 'don't screw up.' That means, learn
how before you start... pay attention to what you're doing...
But we have several generations of Americans wandering
around loose who genuinely expect the world to be a
no-skill-required place, and "learning how" is an alien concept.

For example, driving drunk... bad idea. But simply driving a
car while intoxicated is not the problem, the problem is
that drunks cause wrecks. So instead of setting the cops to
chase drunks, have them & the courts maximally punish drunks
who cause wrecks... along with every other driver who has a
wreck too. And (here's the important part) publicize the
results, so that everybody *knows* that if you have a wreck,
drunk or not, it's your ass in a sling in a big way... no
maybes, no excuses, no "we'll let you off this time because
you're remorseful." That would focus the mind of every
driver, drunk or sober, on driving carefully & defensively.

I used to drive with a blood alcohol level way over .01 many years ago.
It wasn't illegal then, the test was the ability to control the
vehicle. Nowadays there's a BA level set because it's not subjective
judgement by a PO and based on stats that measure levels of impaired
ability with increase in BA. I used to drive more slowly & cautiously
if I'd been drinking because I knew my reaction time was down.

The only vehicle accidents I've ever had in over 30 years were when
dead sober and not paying sufficient attention to what I was doing. And
I can count them on the thumbs of both hands.

So - I agree with you, Doug. The crime isn't driving with a BA over a
certain level, it's doing that and causing an accident. I can't figure,
given human stupidity, that laws will ever make a difference, tho, as
the people most dangerous are those sure they'll never get caught.

Here in Australia (NSW) they took licences off people and cancelled
their vehicle registrations for various offences. All that happened was
an increase in unlicensed & uninsured drivers/vehicles. Predictable.
They need to confiscate the vehicles, then people may pay attention. Or
at least if they didn't, they'd have to find a new vehicle to drive.

PDW

Peter Wiley wrote:
The only vehicle accidents I've ever had in over 30 years were when
dead sober and not paying sufficient attention to what I was doing. And
I can count them on the thumbs of both hands.


When young I had a number of mishaps in cars, due to
excesssive confidence & lack of respect for the
consequences... like most young people....

So - I agree with you, Doug. The crime isn't driving with a BA over a
certain level, it's doing that and causing an accident. I can't figure,
given human stupidity, that laws will ever make a difference, tho, as
the people most dangerous are those sure they'll never get caught.


And that's the problem... the social engineers need to
figure out how to instill the belief that they will be
caught. That is the single best deterrent to misbehavior,
much more effective than severe & harsh punishment *if* you
get caught.


Here in Australia (NSW) they took licences off people and cancelled
their vehicle registrations for various offences. All that happened was
an increase in unlicensed & uninsured drivers/vehicles. Predictable.
They need to confiscate the vehicles, then people may pay attention. Or
at least if they didn't, they'd have to find a new vehicle to drive.


We do that here too, with unintended consequences. The
confiscated cars were given to the schools to sell off, a
nice idea in theory. However the cars cost more to store
than they fetch on the market, and the schools are also
embroiled in wrongful deprivement of property suits. A mess.

DSK