On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:29:15 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

What about this idea I'm leaning towards at this point?

Put a generous sized eyesplice in each sheet and simply bring the
bitter end back through the eye.

I wish I hadn't already bought one half of the sheet accidentally
because just putting a bight in the middle through the cringle and
bringing both bitter ends through it make the most sense to me this
morning.

It seems like this is something there should be a standard for in
traditional boats. I'm surprised I never picked it up from my tarred
hemp and baggywrinkle days. After all, there is a "Topsail Sheet
Bend". That's almost exactly the same requirements as a headsail so,
why isn't it a "Sail Bend" or isn't there a "Jib Sheet Bend". I asked
over at the Wooden Boat Forum where people obsess about these things
and didn't get an answer.

I don't remember the name but I saw an old squarerigger knot in
Ashley's kot book that looked interesting.
Form a bight about a foot from the end of the sheet then shove the
bight through the ring/cringle. Bring the short tail of the line
around to the side of the sail that the bight is now sticking out of
and insert the tail into the loop. Pull the long sheet tight and the
bight of line captures the short tail of line and pins it.

It works like a monkey trap. The bight can't pull back through the
cringle because of the tail holding it open. Too big of a
cringle/ring or too small of a sheet and it won't hold.

Come to think about it you wouldn't want to let it flog around much.
Mark E. Williams

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:29:10 -0500, Gogarty
wrote:

In article rs.com,
says...


The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different
characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be
careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core
but would not swear to it.

Have some of that stuff on my new main halyard. Maybe some people can splice
it. I can't. So it is affixed to the head shackle with a knot, but not a
bowline. I forget the name but it is specifically recommended for halyards
because it will not come loose and will not jam in the sheaves. It's also
whipped to make sure it won't come loose.

Possibly a "Buntline Hitch"?
Mark E. Williams

All these horror stories makes me wonder. I have used snap shackles for 35 years
and never had the slightest problem. Yes, I know how to tie a bowline, but untying

one on a bouncing fordeck could be a challange. If you grab the sheets back from
the clew and pull them in instead of grabbing for the shackle, you should be safe
enough. To be fair, I should mention that I only sail a 22 footer, so I can't
speak for
boats with larger foresails.

Sherwin D.

Mys Terry wrote:

On 12 Mar 2006 16:53:48 -0800, " wrote:

I'm with you here, well tied bowlines shouldn't come loose often. I've
had it happen a few times on a lazy sheet but I've had more sheets
break than bowlines wiggle loose. I really don't like putting hardware
onto the clews of non-boomed jibs. Jibs will flog and eventually
somebody will get hit by them. I nearly lost my brother when he was
hit by a jib that had tied sheets on it. Knocked him out cold and I'm
sure he'd be dead if we'd had hardware on the clew.

-- Tom

Locally we had a guy who thought that snap shackles were the cat's meow for
sheets. He would tell everybody how clever it was. Then one day, in stiff winds
he was coming about and as the snap shackle dragged across a shroud, it snapped
on and took the whole rig down.

I've never had THAT problem with a bowline either!

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
All these horror stories makes me wonder. I have used snap shackles for
35 years
and never had the slightest problem. Yes, I know how to tie a bowline,
but untying

one on a bouncing fordeck could be a challange. If you grab the sheets
back from
the clew and pull them in instead of grabbing for the shackle, you should
be safe
enough. To be fair, I should mention that I only sail a 22 footer, so I
can't
speak for
boats with larger foresails.


Seems to me that it's easier to untie a bowline on a decent size line than
it would be to try and undo a shackle. I don't know if a larger boat would
be harder or easier, as far as that goes. But, when it's cold, trying to get
your gloved hands on a small shackle seems difficult to me.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Maynard G. Krebbs wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:29:10 -0500, Gogarty
wrote:


In article rs.com,
says...


The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different
characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be
careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core
but would not swear to it.


Have some of that stuff on my new main halyard. Maybe some people can splice
it. I can't. So it is affixed to the head shackle with a knot, but not a
bowline. I forget the name but it is specifically recommended for halyards
because it will not come loose and will not jam in the sheaves. It's also
whipped to make sure it won't come loose.


Possibly a "Buntline Hitch"?
Mark E. Williams
The buntline hitch is the same as the stuns'l tackbend that I have
advocated on a number of occasions, and Roger showed in his picture.

http://www.dirauxwest.org/knots/buntline.htm

It is the perfect knot for a number of places, such as the halyard,
but can be a problem if used to attach two large sheets to a jib.

Maybe you know. I got no answer from the traditionalists over at the
Wooden Boat forum.

How did people attach their jib sheets back in the age of canvas?
Everyone seems to use bowlines now but, if something like a stuns'l
tackbend has a special name, why not jib sheet clews.

I notice that a knot with "tack" in it probably is intended to get the
sail as close into the block as possible. Even with my current
splicing enthusiasm, I'm still going to attach my halyard shackles
this way. Easy to move the chafe point, easy to grab, no thick splice
in the sheave, what's not to like?

I think spliced loops are the way to go for roller jibs that are going
to come down on deck anyway before anyone takes the sheets off. I'd
hate to have someone talk me out of it though just after making the
two eye splices. (Better hurry)

--

Roger Long



"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Maynard G. Krebbs wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:29:10 -0500, Gogarty
wrote:


In article
rvers.com,
says...


The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have
different characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may
need to be careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over
a parallel core but would not swear to it.


Have some of that stuff on my new main halyard. Maybe some people
can splice it. I can't. So it is affixed to the head shackle with a
knot, but not a bowline. I forget the name but it is specifically
recommended for halyards because it will not come loose and will
not jam in the sheaves. It's also whipped to make sure it won't
come loose.


Possibly a "Buntline Hitch"?
Mark E. Williams
The buntline hitch is the same as the stuns'l tackbend that I have
advocated on a number of occasions, and Roger showed in his picture.

http://www.dirauxwest.org/knots/buntline.htm

It is the perfect knot for a number of places, such as the halyard,
but can be a problem if used to attach two large sheets to a jib.

Roger Long wrote:
Maybe you know. I got no answer from the traditionalists over at the
Wooden Boat forum.

How did people attach their jib sheets back in the age of canvas?
Everyone seems to use bowlines now but, if something like a stuns'l
tackbend has a special name, why not jib sheet clews.

I don't know. I have a few books I can look through, and it is time
for my Spring visit to the USS Constitution, so I might be able to
come up with an answer in a few days.


I notice that a knot with "tack" in it probably is intended to get the
sail as close into the block as possible. Even with my current
splicing enthusiasm, I'm still going to attach my halyard shackles
this way. Easy to move the chafe point, easy to grab, no thick splice
in the sheave, what's not to like?

yup!


I think spliced loops are the way to go for roller jibs that are going
to come down on deck anyway before anyone takes the sheets off. I'd
hate to have someone talk me out of it though just after making the
two eye splices. (Better hurry)

I agree that there is virtue in a eye splice doubled through the
cringle - I setup some of my fenders this way, figuring it can handle
twice the abuse this way. But before you do it, make sure your clew
can handle four passes of the line. And is the shape of it such that
each will pull in the proper direction, even after they're drawn tight?

Capt. JG wrote:
"Howard" wrote in message
ervers.com...

Some where, within the last week or two, I read a report about a fellow
who used a bowline to affix his bosuns chair. He was using some new
fangled, high tech rope. Any way, or so the story goes, he was working on
the top of the mast alternatingly putting stress on and off the bowline.
The new fangled rope worked out of the bowline and down he came. He broke
his fall but still screwed up one foot bad enough that it had to be
amputated, eventually.

Sorry but I can not recall the source of this story.

The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different
characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be careful.
I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core but would
not swear to it.

Howard


Typically, one uses more than one line when going up the mast to prevent
just this sort of thing.

Climbers use a double figure eight with a long tail. Anyone going up
the mast should as well. The bowline is the wrong knot.

Jeff wrote:
Maynard G. Krebbs wrote:

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:29:10 -0500, Gogarty
wrote:


In article rs.com,
says...


The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have
different characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may
need to be careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a
parallel core but would not swear to it.


Have some of that stuff on my new main halyard. Maybe some people can
splice it. I can't. So it is affixed to the head shackle with a knot,
but not a bowline. I forget the name but it is specifically
recommended for halyards because it will not come loose and will not
jam in the sheaves. It's also whipped to make sure it won't come loose.



Possibly a "Buntline Hitch"?
Mark E. Williams

The buntline hitch is the same as the stuns'l tackbend that I have
advocated on a number of occasions, and Roger showed in his picture.

http://www.dirauxwest.org/knots/buntline.htm

It is the perfect knot for a number of places, such as the halyard, but
can be a problem if used to attach two large sheets to a jib.
Buntline hitches are hard to undo. We use them where we need a strong
knot that takes no space and never gets undone. The bitter end of the
reefing lines (on the boom).

For all our sheets we use bowlines. We haven't had one come undone
since I have been sailing the boat. Our genoa sheets are 25mm or about
an inch in diameter. If we used a correspondingly large shackle it
would do significant damage. Even so we have had sailors knocked out by
the line itself. Sure the bowline occasionally gets snagged on a shroud
but it shakes it self loose pretty quickly. Not really a problem.

We tie our bowlines with long tails. One bowline is tied close to the
sail, the other a little longer so they don't make double the lump to
get around the shrouds.

Gary

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:31:35 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:

All these horror stories makes me wonder. I have used snap shackles for 35 years
and never had the slightest problem.

You've been fortunate. There are actually conditions where some snap
shackles are able to flog themselves open just from inertial forces.
I had one set that needed to have extra strong springs installed on
the shackle pin because it was happening too routinely.

Having the release pin or its lanyard snag on something is another
proven shackle opener.