On 30 Jan 2006 16:53:02 -0600, Dave wrote:

To settle a discussion I'm having off-list, has anyone ever experienced,
witnessed or heard of sinking a Pearson Ensign by burying the rail and
taking water over the gunwale?

It's easy enough to believe since they are not self bailing and have
relatively heavy ballast. Any kind of heavy weather knockdown or
spinnaker broach could certainly do it. People were sinking Solings
with a great deal of regularity until they were made self bailing.

The problem with J24s is a limited range of positive stability and
cockpit lockers that tend to pop open. They have also been turtled
and sunk in the right conditions. I used to know a guy who had done
that on Long Island Sound, good sailor too.

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:24:32 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On 30 Jan 2006 16:53:02 -0600, Dave wrote:

To settle a discussion I'm having off-list, has anyone ever experienced,
witnessed or heard of sinking a Pearson Ensign by burying the rail and
taking water over the gunwale?

It's easy enough to believe since they are not self bailing and have
relatively heavy ballast. Any kind of heavy weather knockdown or
spinnaker broach could certainly do it. People were sinking Solings with
a great deal of regularity until they were made self bailing.

The problem with J24s is a limited range of positive stability and cockpit
lockers that tend to pop open. They have also been turtled and sunk in
the right conditions. I used to know a guy who had done that on Long
Island Sound, good sailor too.

Actually they've been sinking with alarming regularity! I can think of 5
incidents in the last year or so.

Besides the cockpit locker problem, the companionway is barely above water
during a knockdown -- in smooth water.

J24s have been raced for over 25 years now, even offshore. But the
sinkings seem to be a recent phenomenon. I wonder if people are just
pushing them harder, as if they're dinghies or sportboats, where capsizing
is a normal part of sailing.

Matt O.

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 23:48:46 -0500, Matt O'Toole
wrote:

J24s have been raced for over 25 years now, even offshore. But the
sinkings seem to be a recent phenomenon. I wonder if people are just
pushing them harder, as if they're dinghies or sportboats, where capsizing
is a normal part of sailing.

That's certainly one possibility but there is also a chance that the
deck cores are absorbing more moisture which would decrease stability
to a certain extent. Are the capsizing boats competetive or not? If
yes, I'd guess that it is just more agressive technique.

On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:47:23 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 23:48:46 -0500, Matt O'Toole
wrote:

J24s have been raced for over 25 years now, even offshore. But the
sinkings seem to be a recent phenomenon. I wonder if people are just
pushing them harder, as if they're dinghies or sportboats, where
capsizing is a normal part of sailing.

That's certainly one possibility but there is also a chance that the deck
cores are absorbing more moisture which would decrease stability to a
certain extent. Are the capsizing boats competetive or not? If yes, I'd
guess that it is just more agressive technique.

There's no question about the stability problems, soaked deck cores or
not. The J24 is not a particularly stable boat. But I do think
people are driving these boats harder than ever before. The 5 sinkings
I've heard of in the last couple of years were all during major regattas.

Matt O.