"Larry" wrote in message
...
Gary wrote in
news:5UxDf.375770$2k.201451
@pd7tw1no:


Of course, all these cures assume, wrongly, that the person in
the water
is:
A) Awake and alert
B) Able to pull himself up and climb a ladder
c) Not hypothermic, which easily negates A) and B)

Not wrongly, Larry. The most common situation is awake and active,
so this is what you should design for.

If you design and train to meet this case, then by all means move
on to train and equip for the more rare combinations. You'll note
that the permanent ladder solution (which can be pulled down from
the sea) meets the hypothermia case by speeding recovery. Lacking
A and B will always require competent crew on board.

The following story may have some detail slightly astray, but it
stems from a time I was living in Salcombe and there was a
lifeboat shout - a couple of decades ago.

A very experienced long distance yachtsman (Mr James) went
overboard in the Salcombe Estuary, UK, in winter. He had an
experienced crew aboard. They were on a catamaran. They rapidly
stopped and returned to him. He was perfectly fit, and talking and
joking with his crew as they tried to help him aboard. Their first
quick couple of attempts to get a line around him and hoist him
aboard failed (difficulty in heaving his weight up 5ft with raw
muscle power, I think, but memory is a little faint here). They
started rigging a hoist system, but by the time they had that
ready, he could no longer pass the loop around his body
(hypothermia). A second crw member jumped in to pass the loop
over. James was recovered, but too late. The second crew member
was recovered with difficulty by what was then a very exhausted
crew. He was hypothermic, but recovered.

I know one case doesn't prove a generality, but I guess that's why
I'm keen on sea accessible ladders.

And personally, I haven't found a rope ladder that meets the case.
They've been fitted to some liferafts - but they swing under,
making them impossible to use as ladders. However you can develop
techniques to use them (floating horizontally, putting a foot into
a step, then giving a great horizontal shove) but that requires
rehearsal, and it's not a technique if the freeboard is greater
than a couple of feet.

JimB

"News f2s" wrote in news:drngvt$f79$1
@news.freedom2surf.net:

They
started rigging a hoist system,

There's another screwup I've seen in the harbor retrieving someone. They
always try to hoist the guy by hand....when not 3 ft away is the end of a
halyard that leads down to a two-speed winch big enough to lift half the
boat....80% up the mast.

While Lionheart is coming about to retrieve, I'm mast furling the mizzen,
then fixing one of the mizzen halyards to the outhaul with a block off
the end of the boom secured by a line I can release from the mast, which
makes a great sea painter for the dingy, by the way. The boom is tied
out by a preventer to the solid handrail, either side.

To this halyard, the life ring is attached to throw to the victim, as we
passes slowly by him/her. Now hanging onto the life ring (or hopefully
tethered to it by their Sospenders, the victim is simply wound close
aboard to the mizzen "sea painter", the line released from the block and
the victim hauled up the side of the boat by the halyard and one of the
many winches in the cockpit at the base of her mizzen.

Once the victim has clipped the halyard clip to the Sospenders, the
victim no longer needs to be strong enough to haul themselves anywhere.
Crew aboard does the hauling. If the victim appears unable to do that, a
crewmember can be deployed on the halyard, jump off the mizzen boom and
swim it to the victim, maybe with a harness if necessary and it only
takes one crew member to haul BOTH of them back aboard with the winch's
power.

This grappling over the side to grab someone by hand is crazy in a
sailboat full of winches and halyards.

In article ,
Larry wrote:
"News f2s" wrote in news:drngvt$f79$1
:

They
started rigging a hoist system,

There's another screwup I've seen in the harbor retrieving someone. They
always try to hoist the guy by hand....when not 3 ft away is the end of a
halyard that leads down to a two-speed winch big enough to lift half the
boat....80% up the mast.

I've seen this happen in practice... not for real. I did have a
student boat do a drop and grab on someone... not for practice. She
fell off the J-24 near the shrouds, and a big guy grabbed her as she
went by. It was a matter of seconds, and he was in the right spot at
the right time with the right upper-body strength. :-)


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"News f2s" wrote in
news:drngvt$f79$1
@news.freedom2surf.net:

They
started rigging a hoist system,

There's another screwup I've seen in the harbor retrieving
someone. They
always try to hoist the guy by hand....when not 3 ft away is the
end of a
halyard that leads down to a two-speed winch big enough to lift
half the
boat....80% up the mast.

Agreed.

Hazy memory, but I believe the crew used the spinnaker halyard
with a quick release clip holding a floating rope loop. The
problem was, they assumed they were all tough enough for a quick
heave, and then did not recognise the onset of hypothermia soon
enough, since the guy was still chatting and joking with them.

All preventable with a flip down ladder.
--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/sw_peloponese.htm