Roger Long wrote:
I would certainly agree with 10 years in salt water although very few
people actually do. I can't remember seeing or hearing of a dismasted
coastal cruiser.

You don't get out enough. Happens several times a year in
pretty much every major sailing area. I know of 2 on the
Chesapeake last year, for example, and that's just the ones
I heard of (happened to friend of a friend etc etc).





rhys wrote:
There's the obvious eyeball "tests" of looking for cracks, rust
weeping, deformation of holes, fraying wire, terminals with
suspiciously shiny wire, etc.


Another key to look for is uneven lay to the strands.

Most faults in standing rigging require at least a
magnifying glass to spot. I use a magnifyer plus a 18V xenon
work light.


There's the dye tests. Interpreting those is a rigger's art.


Not really. The dye is just to show smaller cracks &
porosities than could be seen with just a magnifiier &
bright light.

There's the X-ray tests. Even more so.

I have 1/4" original (33 years) 7 x 19 standing rigging all around in
freshwater with good quality Merriman open turnbuckles which I inspect
and lube yearly. I eyeball the entire spar before launch, paying
particular attention to cotter pins, tangs, etc. My insurance company
isn't making a fuss, and the boat passes survey requirements.



I'm surprised some of the tangs don't have elongated
holes... bet you've replaced pins a couple of times... 33
years would make me nervous, but the expense of replacing
standing rigging would also make me hesitate.

IMHO there's no reason to replace standing rigging without
some indications from proper inspection.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006, DSK wrote:

Roger Long wrote:\

I would certainly agree with 10 years in salt water
although very few people actually do. I can't remember
seeing or hearing of a dismasted coastal cruiser.

You don't get out enough. Happens several times a year
in pretty much every major sailing area. I know of 2 on
the Chesapeake last year, for example, and that's just
the ones I heard of (happened to friend of a friend etc
etc).

Two boats that are kept in our marina on the L.I. Sound, in an area
where folk generally do monitor and attend to the condition of their
boats, were dismasted last summer, and we saw at least three others
(boats ranging in size from +/- 25' to +/- 42') and, on one
particularly active racing/sailing weekend, I heard of three other
dismasted boats in the area while monitor the radio (and seeing SeaTow
or BoatUS boats speeding to the distressed callers).

Happens more than that out here...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Roger Long wrote:
I would certainly agree with 10 years in salt water although very few
people actually do. I can't remember seeing or hearing of a dismasted
coastal cruiser.

You don't get out enough. Happens several times a year in pretty much
every major sailing area. I know of 2 on the Chesapeake last year, for
example, and that's just the ones I heard of (happened to friend of a
friend etc etc).





rhys wrote:
There's the obvious eyeball "tests" of looking for cracks, rust
weeping, deformation of holes, fraying wire, terminals with
suspiciously shiny wire, etc.


Another key to look for is uneven lay to the strands.

Most faults in standing rigging require at least a magnifying glass to
spot. I use a magnifyer plus a 18V xenon work light.


There's the dye tests. Interpreting those is a rigger's art.


Not really. The dye is just to show smaller cracks & porosities than could
be seen with just a magnifiier & bright light.

There's the X-ray tests. Even more so.

I have 1/4" original (33 years) 7 x 19 standing rigging all around in
freshwater with good quality Merriman open turnbuckles which I inspect
and lube yearly. I eyeball the entire spar before launch, paying
particular attention to cotter pins, tangs, etc. My insurance company
isn't making a fuss, and the boat passes survey requirements.



I'm surprised some of the tangs don't have elongated holes... bet you've
replaced pins a couple of times... 33 years would make me nervous, but the
expense of replacing standing rigging would also make me hesitate.

IMHO there's no reason to replace standing rigging without some
indications from proper inspection.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

rhys wrote:
snip
Brion Toss's "Rigger's Companion" is great on all this stuff, or buy a
surveyor a few beers.

Thanks Rhys and others. Our marina owner has been around boats all his
life and his take is that unless the wire is pulling out of the swages,
rigging doesn't stretch and doesn't need replacing for that reason. I'm
not sure I agree. I'm guessing the gear on mine is as old as the boat
(40 yrs. this year) It -looks- good, to my eye, but I'm not a surveyor.
My issue is with the inner starboard shroud which appears to have been
stretched. The mast is measured true, chainplates and swages appear
correct but the turnbuckle is tightened completely to the end of its
threads compared to the port side. No evidence of galling or
overtightening on the threads. Perhaps a poor measuring job sometime in
the past? I think I'm going to err on the side of caution and have it
all redone. I like the idea of new sheaves and rope halyards as well.

In article ,
prodigal1 wrote:

My issue is with the inner starboard shroud which appears to have
been stretched. The mast is measured true, chainplates and swages
appear correct but the turnbuckle is tightened completely to the end
of its threads compared to the port side. No evidence of galling or
overtightening on the threads. Perhaps a poor measuring job sometime
in the past?

If it's the only shroud, that's probably the case, though inspect the
upper attachment carefully.

I think I'm going to err on the side of caution and have it all
redone. I like the idea of new sheaves and rope halyards as well.

Sometimes, the comfort of knowing it's right is worth the cost.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

My 28' S2 was out of the water and the mast was down and I had no
intention of replacing the rigging even after 20 yrs cuz it looked ok
even on close inspection. However, I read an article in the BOATUS
insurance mag about rigging cracks so I got out my 10x magnifier and
looked even closer. Damn if I didnt find a crack in a SS fitting. I
looked more and used very fine sand paper to remove some brown stains.
Under these stains were cracks and the stains were where the SS had
become non-SS in the cracks. About half the fittings had cracks (20
yrs in salt water in FL). Next, i tried dye testing which showed
nothing even on the known cracks. Took the fittings to work where I
have more sophisticated equipment and looked at the fittings under
various Mag. Tried to grind out the cracks but they went all the way
through so they were real. I replaced all the standing rigging and
lifelines.

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I would certainly agree with 10 years in salt water although very
few people actually do. I can't remember seeing or hearing of a
dismasted coastal cruiser.

Any Great Lakes or other fresh water owners have recommendations
or dismastings to report?

--

Roger Long

Not answering your question - but attempting to put another
dimension into the discussion -

Most failures on properly designed rigs are due to metal fatigue
(agreed, often initiated by tiny corrosion weaknesses). So surely
the prudent timing of rig replacement will depend on the degree to
which the rig is over-designed? A point often ignored by insurers.

A European example which I know of is the difference between a
40ft Oyster and a 40ft Beneteau, both built around 1990, with
nearly identical masts. All the Oyster's main rigging was 10mm,
with intermediates of 8mm. The Beneteau used 8mm with 6mm
intermediates. The Oyster was advertised as a 'round the worlder',
the other as a 'performance cruiser'. My (unthinking) reaction
would be to life the Beneteau rigging at around 10 years, and give
the Oyster nearly twice that.

But then the mean streak in me came out. Instead I instituted a
regime of annual *close* inspection (most of the suitable
techniques have been aired already). Bottlescrew crack? See if
there's an obvious cause of the fault; if you can't find a cause,
replace them all. Strand gone? Search for obvious causes; if none,
replace all similarly stressed wires.

Under this regime all the Beneteau rigging was replaced between 8
and 12 years old (inner forestay twice). Most replacements were
initiated by strand failures at the bottom swage. The Oyster
changed a forestay at 10 years (yard damage bent the stay when the
mast was lowered, cracking a strand at the upper swage) and the
backstay sustained damage on a yacht lift. The inner forestay was
replaced twice - cracks at the lower swage. All bottlescrews
replaced. 25 years so far for caps and intermediates . . . I think
the new owner is replacing these for long term peace of mind!

I'm aware that the Oyster was about twice the displacement of the
Beneteau, so the inertia stresses on the Beneteau rigging would
have been higher (all that bouncing around!). So perhaps my
assumption about overdesign has been amplified in this case.

Whatever, my conclusions a

1. Nothing beats annual *close* inspection for checking rig safety
2. Corrosion initiates many failures (bottom swage faults most
common)
3. Your chances of suffering a fault are much higher on more
highly stressed rigs
4. The 'life' of a rig can be very long indeed if it is
understressed (under-use or overdesign)

So, thinking about all the rain we have in W Europe, my opinion
(untested) is that the fresh water issue is probably secondary
compared to the design issue.

JimB

On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 11:34:39 -0000, "News f2s"
wrote:

I'm aware that the Oyster was about twice the displacement of the
Beneteau, so the inertia stresses on the Beneteau rigging would
have been higher (all that bouncing around!).

=============================================

Perhaps not. The most important predictor of rigging stress is
righting moment (resistance to heeling). A boat with a higher
righting moment can carry more sail for a given wind strength, and
consequently has higher rigging loads.

In article ,
(Dennis Pogson) wrote:

Some insurers (most) will not insure a boat where the standing rigging
is
more than 8 years old, even if the boat had never been used since new

My insurers (Yachtline, in the UK) are happy to insure a rig of an unknown
age, based on electrical testing by Maidsure every few years and
replacement of any wires that they find unacceptable.

Regards,
Jerry

"News f2s" wrote in message
...

Under this regime all the Beneteau rigging was replaced between
8 and 12 years old (inner forestay twice). Most replacements
were initiated by strand failures at the bottom swage. The
Oyster changed a forestay at 10 years (yard damage bent the stay
when the mast was lowered, cracking a strand at the upper swage)
and the backstay sustained damage on a yacht lift. The inner
forestay was replaced twice - cracks at the lower swage. All
bottlescrews replaced. 25 years so far for caps and
intermediates . . . I think the new owner is replacing these for
long term peace of mind!

Sorry, senior moment there. Oyster was 1988 boat, rigging 18 yrs
old - not 25!

JimB