Thanks !

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
news
Peggie Hall wrote:

wrote:

I just bought a new boat (to me) and have some head questions.


Hoooboy...

Head - Jabsco manual head

Now my problems and questions:

1. My toilet is filling up with water after it is pumped dry.


Most likely that's because the toilet is below the waterline, there is no
vented loop in the head intake, and you're leaving the pump in the "wet"
mode. See (download and print) the installation instructions and
operation manual for your toilet he
http://www.jabsco.com/prodInfo/overv...10-0000_ds.pdf


2. My holding tank seems to be filling up a lot faster than it should.
I have about a 20 gallon holding tank and it is full after a day sail
with light use. Keep in mind this includes a week's worth of sitting
without use.


Always flushing only in the "wet" mode and leaving the head intake
seacock open will do that.

3. I'm not familar with one part of the unit...Right next to the head
there is a manual pump. A hose comes in through a thru-hull and does a
loop that wraps back through the pump and to the holding tank. Is this
to pump out of the tank to the lake or the opposite?


I'm not sure from your description of it. Can you email me a photo or a
sketch of the installation? peg(dot)hall(at)sbcglobal(dot)net.

Any help would be appreciated.


Start by reading what passes for a manual at the link I gave you. I'll be
glad to answer any more questions after you've read it (and I'm 99% sure
your first will be "what's a vented loop?")


A vented loop can be made from half of a 2 part "P" trap intended for use
under your kitchen sink. The proper style has a drain plug on it's normal
bottom.

The plug may be fitted with a shraeder valve, like on your bicycle inner
tube or car wheel if you care to roll your own. The shraeder valve must
be adjusted for a very low pressure seal by adjusting it with a shraeder
valve tool. You should be able to blow through it, but not suck.

The vented loop is created by mounting the trap upside down on the top of
two vertical pipes connected to the remainder of the piping in use. If
vibration tolerant couplings are used, rigid pipe may couple to other
piping, or semi flexible plastic pipe. I would use an MJ, or mechanical
joint Have used several with excellent results. The MJ was invented for
the Diefenbunker, nuclear defence against toilets backing up with over
pressure shock waves. The p trap should be situated at a point that does
not usually go below the waterline, but that is negotiable. It's function
is to allow low atmospheric pressure inside the piping to "suck in" air,
thus defeating any syphon effect which would otherwise occur.

Proper anti syphon loops are available in cast platinum at marine stores.
Lesser metals like bronze are almost as expensive.

You should be able to see if the head is pumping water into it's self when
you pump the pump. If it is, flip the little lever switch you will find
if you look, and pumping again, observe the head is pumped dry and your
tank will not fill so quickly. This limits slopping contents when at sea.
I not, you will need to replace, or possibly only clean the duck billed,
or joker valve. Buy one, since you will need a spare, then disassemble
the pump to replace it. If the old one is torn or warped you will need to
replace it, if not, you may be able to clean it. It would probably tear
the day after you return the un needed spare, or be just wrong enough that
it won't work if you need it. This should illustrate why it is called a
joker valve. The joke would be on you.

Three lobed valves mimic heart valves, but without ligaments, are not as
reliable as possible.

Crap overboard when you can. A flexible snow slider carpet may be of
assistance keeping topsides clear for neccessary bodily functions. It can
be towed by floating line to rinse, and seized up using the commissionaire
knot, a crochet, over the bulwark to be used.

That funny, unused alladin clip on the backstay is to permit a good rig to
suspend the stern ladder horizontally for use as a sea head frame with
backrest "sissy bars" support and dinghy dock towing harness. The horse
shoe MOB float makes a good seat cushion. With a proper umbrella, a shower
curtain, the times, a good cigar, LED headlight and an ipod, how could
life be better than with an autopilot and self tacking jib?

Clinging desperate and naked to it, you are legal to do that for which
fishes and birds need no license.

A proper harness developed from this arrangement might enable a sea bath
under way, even body surfing. Rinse with a fresh water washcloth to avoid
salt water boils. Wash clothing during rainy periods. There is never
enough toilet paper at sea, Billy.

Terry K

Wait a sec...

A vented loop can be made from half of a 2 part "P" trap intended for use
under your kitchen sink. The proper style has a drain plug on it's normal
bottom.

The plug may be fitted with a shraeder valve, like on your bicycle inner
tube or car wheel if you care to roll your own. The shraeder valve must
be adjusted for a very low pressure seal by adjusting it with a shraeder
valve tool. You should be able to blow through it, but not suck.

If I'm understanding what you're saying, it should be just the
opposite...'cuz the function of a vented loop is twofold...1) it creats
an arch in the line above the waterline...and 2) it's suppose only alow
INTO a line, nothing out.

The vented loop is created by mounting the trap upside down on the top of
two vertical pipes connected to the remainder of the piping in use. If
vibration tolerant couplings are used, rigid pipe may couple to other
piping, or semi flexible plastic pipe. I would use an MJ, or mechanical
joint Have used several with excellent results. The MJ was invented for
the Diefenbunker, nuclear defence against toilets backing up with over
pressure shock waves. The p trap should be situated at a point that does
not usually go below the waterline, but that is negotiable. It's function
is to allow low atmospheric pressure inside the piping to "suck in" air,
thus defeating any syphon effect which would otherwise occur.

Wouldn't it be a lot simpler and cheaper to simply drill a hole in the
trap and buy an air valve to put in the hole?

Proper anti syphon loops are available in cast platinum at marine stores.
Lesser metals like bronze are almost as expensive.

PVC vented loops are also availalble, and priced pretty reasonably.


You should be able to see if the head is pumping water into it's self when
you pump the pump. If it is, flip the little lever switch you will find
if you look, and pumping again, observe the head is pumped dry and your
tank will not fill so quickly.

Simply put, the most water efficient way: ahead of use, pump the head a
couple of times to wet the bowl...switch to dry. After use, pump enough
times in the dry mode to move the bowl contents all the way to the tank
(or out the thru-hull if at sea beyond the "3 mile limit")...switch to
"wet" for only enough pumps to rinse the bowl...then back to "dry" to
pump the "rinse water" all the way through the system.

Before you ask...any marine toilet that's working anywhere near spec can
move bowl contents at least 6' in the dry mode. If your tank or
thru-hull is significantly further away than 6', it's a badly designed
system.

you will need to replace, or possibly only clean the duck billed,
or joker valve.

As a live-aboard, replace it once a year...the average "weekend warrior"
should replace it at least every two years.

Buy one, since you will need a spare, then disassemble
the pump to replace it.


Why should you need to do that? The joker valve is in the head discharge
fitting, which isn't part of the pump, but only attached to it.
Replacing a joker valve only requires removing the screws that hold the
discharge fitting onto the pump.

If the old one is torn or warped you will need to
replace it, if not, you may be able to clean it.

If it's more than a year or two old, the slit will no longer be a slit,
but a hole...no longer able to function as the one-way valve it's
designed to be. Regardless of any other condition, if you can see ANY
daylight when you look through it, replace it.

I've never seen one torn that shouldn't have been replaced at least a
decade earlier.


Three lobed valves mimic heart valves, but without ligaments, are not as
reliable as possible.

Joker valves don't have lobes...the most common are a cup with a single
slit...a few are a cup with a + in the bottom instead of a slit...but
they're all just cup shaped doodads with a flange (that doubles as the
gasket between the fitting and the pump), a single - or + slits in the
bottom, and "lips" on the outside of the cup.

Crap overboard when you can. A flexible snow slider carpet may be of
assistance keeping topsides clear for neccessary bodily functions. It can
be towed by floating line to rinse, and seized up using the commissionaire
knot, a crochet, over the bulwark to be used.

Wouldn't a bucket on a long line be a lot cleaner and easier?

As for the rest...you have a wonderful imagination, Terry..but not a lot
of practical experience. If I'm wrong about that last part, please send
demonstration videos shot in 4-6' seas at least 20 miles
offshore...I'll add narration, send 'em to "America's Funniest..." and
split the take with you.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304