Gogarty wrote:
Weird.

I would bet that those people who died did not drown but suffered cardiac
arrest upon being plunged suddenly into cold water. Less than 70 F. is
cold.


You may well be correct for many of the victims. The human body's
response to sudden immersion in cold water is (like much else in nature)
a bell curve. ~ 5% will be fine, ~30% will feel the shock but able to
recover, ~30 have a more severe shock, ~30% more severe yet, and ~5% may
simply die almost instantly.

Age and fitness probably matter, but I've personally seen (and helped
rescue) a very fit young man (a college soccer star, in fact) lapse
instantly into unconsciousness & heart failure upon immersion in 40
degree water. He fell off a jet ski near shore, would have been an
embarassing way to die.

There are stories of people surviving almost indefinitely while immersed
in cold water, but I've always assumed that these people just
represented that far tip of the bell curve.

One of the reasons I favor Type 3 PFDs over inflatables is that they
offer some insulation for the chest (plus no worries about inflation or
lack thereof).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

In article ,
DSK wrote:

Gogarty wrote:
Weird.

I would bet that those people who died did not drown but suffered cardiac
arrest upon being plunged suddenly into cold water. Less than 70 F. is
cold.


You may well be correct for many of the victims. The human body's
response to sudden immersion in cold water is (like much else in nature)
a bell curve. ~ 5% will be fine, ~30% will feel the shock but able to
recover, ~30 have a more severe shock, ~30% more severe yet, and ~5% may
simply die almost instantly.

Age and fitness probably matter, but I've personally seen (and helped
rescue) a very fit young man (a college soccer star, in fact) lapse
instantly into unconsciousness & heart failure upon immersion in 40
degree water. He fell off a jet ski near shore, would have been an
embarassing way to die.

There are stories of people surviving almost indefinitely while immersed
in cold water, but I've always assumed that these people just
represented that far tip of the bell curve.

One of the reasons I favor Type 3 PFDs over inflatables is that they
offer some insulation for the chest (plus no worries about inflation or
lack thereof).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I finally saw pictures of the boat. It is a travesty that this small
craft was rated for 50 passengers and two crew.

harlan

--
To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"?

I finally saw pictures of the boat. It is a travesty that this small
craft was rated for 50 passengers and two crew.

I should know this having been heavily involved with the Coast Guard
and vessel stability issues but it's slipped my mind. Does the USCG
have inspection jurisdiction over vessels on Lake George? I haven't
seen them mentioned in the news accounts.

USCG stability rules are pretty conservative although there are plenty
of vessels that are grandfathered, been modified post stability test,
or otherwise snuck into the system.

--

Roger Long

In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

I finally saw pictures of the boat. It is a travesty that this small
craft was rated for 50 passengers and two crew.

I should know this having been heavily involved with the Coast Guard
and vessel stability issues but it's slipped my mind. Does the USCG
have inspection jurisdiction over vessels on Lake George? I haven't
seen them mentioned in the news accounts.

USCG stability rules are pretty conservative although there are plenty
of vessels that are grandfathered, been modified post stability test,
or otherwise snuck into the system.

NY Tmes reported that as an older boat, this one was grandfathered in
and did not have to be inspected after changes.

h

--
To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"?

I saw the out of the water photos in the paper this morning and the
report that a stability test had to be stopped after 10 passengers.
As one who has designed several USCG certificated vessels and
conducted more stability tests than I can remember, all I can say is
"WOW!". No tests or calculations would have been necessary to
conclude that this thing was going to kill people some day with 50
passengers.

I think this accident is going to be one of those that results in a
major overhaul of the regulations. Actually, it probably won't. Post
911 nobody is paying attention to anything except chasing phantoms and
figuring out ways to use terrorism and natural disasters to push
political agendas and award no-bid contracts.

--

Roger Long

In article ,
DSK wrote:
One of the reasons I favor Type 3 PFDs over inflatables is that they
offer some insulation for the chest (plus no worries about inflation or
lack thereof).

I like them also for the insulation factor... they can be worn
underneath windbreakers and such. However, some people find them too
bulky and uncomfortable, and thus don't wear them.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com