Weird.

I would bet that those people who died did not drown but suffered cardiac
arrest upon being plunged suddenly into cold water. Less than 70 F. is
cold.

Gogarty wrote:
Weird.

I would bet that those people who died did not drown but suffered cardiac
arrest upon being plunged suddenly into cold water. Less than 70 F. is
cold.


You may well be correct for many of the victims. The human body's
response to sudden immersion in cold water is (like much else in nature)
a bell curve. ~ 5% will be fine, ~30% will feel the shock but able to
recover, ~30 have a more severe shock, ~30% more severe yet, and ~5% may
simply die almost instantly.

Age and fitness probably matter, but I've personally seen (and helped
rescue) a very fit young man (a college soccer star, in fact) lapse
instantly into unconsciousness & heart failure upon immersion in 40
degree water. He fell off a jet ski near shore, would have been an
embarassing way to die.

There are stories of people surviving almost indefinitely while immersed
in cold water, but I've always assumed that these people just
represented that far tip of the bell curve.

One of the reasons I favor Type 3 PFDs over inflatables is that they
offer some insulation for the chest (plus no worries about inflation or
lack thereof).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

In article ,
DSK wrote:

Gogarty wrote:
Weird.

I would bet that those people who died did not drown but suffered cardiac
arrest upon being plunged suddenly into cold water. Less than 70 F. is
cold.


You may well be correct for many of the victims. The human body's
response to sudden immersion in cold water is (like much else in nature)
a bell curve. ~ 5% will be fine, ~30% will feel the shock but able to
recover, ~30 have a more severe shock, ~30% more severe yet, and ~5% may
simply die almost instantly.

Age and fitness probably matter, but I've personally seen (and helped
rescue) a very fit young man (a college soccer star, in fact) lapse
instantly into unconsciousness & heart failure upon immersion in 40
degree water. He fell off a jet ski near shore, would have been an
embarassing way to die.

There are stories of people surviving almost indefinitely while immersed
in cold water, but I've always assumed that these people just
represented that far tip of the bell curve.

One of the reasons I favor Type 3 PFDs over inflatables is that they
offer some insulation for the chest (plus no worries about inflation or
lack thereof).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I finally saw pictures of the boat. It is a travesty that this small
craft was rated for 50 passengers and two crew.

harlan

--
To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"?

I finally saw pictures of the boat. It is a travesty that this small
craft was rated for 50 passengers and two crew.

I should know this having been heavily involved with the Coast Guard
and vessel stability issues but it's slipped my mind. Does the USCG
have inspection jurisdiction over vessels on Lake George? I haven't
seen them mentioned in the news accounts.

USCG stability rules are pretty conservative although there are plenty
of vessels that are grandfathered, been modified post stability test,
or otherwise snuck into the system.

--

Roger Long

In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

I finally saw pictures of the boat. It is a travesty that this small
craft was rated for 50 passengers and two crew.

I should know this having been heavily involved with the Coast Guard
and vessel stability issues but it's slipped my mind. Does the USCG
have inspection jurisdiction over vessels on Lake George? I haven't
seen them mentioned in the news accounts.

USCG stability rules are pretty conservative although there are plenty
of vessels that are grandfathered, been modified post stability test,
or otherwise snuck into the system.

NY Tmes reported that as an older boat, this one was grandfathered in
and did not have to be inspected after changes.

h

--
To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"?

I saw the out of the water photos in the paper this morning and the
report that a stability test had to be stopped after 10 passengers.
As one who has designed several USCG certificated vessels and
conducted more stability tests than I can remember, all I can say is
"WOW!". No tests or calculations would have been necessary to
conclude that this thing was going to kill people some day with 50
passengers.

I think this accident is going to be one of those that results in a
major overhaul of the regulations. Actually, it probably won't. Post
911 nobody is paying attention to anything except chasing phantoms and
figuring out ways to use terrorism and natural disasters to push
political agendas and award no-bid contracts.

--

Roger Long

In article ,
DSK wrote:
One of the reasons I favor Type 3 PFDs over inflatables is that they
offer some insulation for the chest (plus no worries about inflation or
lack thereof).

I like them also for the insulation factor... they can be worn
underneath windbreakers and such. However, some people find them too
bulky and uncomfortable, and thus don't wear them.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Lake George is a cold lake.
Just like the Titanic I'll bet that most went into hypothermia, then
drowned as their underlying health problems of 'old age' kicked-in. As
the bodie's 'core' becomes colder and colder there is some protection
mechanism vs. cardiac arrest; its when the body 're-warms' is when
cardiac arrest from ventricular fibrillation becomes extremely
dangerous. Older folks dont have very good 'heat regulation' and with
the onset of hypothermia one loses their ability to control hands, feet
and other voluntary muscles - and their ability to hang-on to an
overturned boat or pfd's that may have floated by.
The wakes on L. George can be monsterous.

In article , Gogarty
wrote:

Weird.

I would bet that those people who died did not drown but suffered cardiac
arrest upon being plunged suddenly into cold water. Less than 70 F. is
cold.

Rich Hampel wrote in
:

Lake George is a cold lake.


I swam in Lake George. For it to get to 70F, you'd have to MELT Florida as
we spiral into the sun. Most NY lakes are like that. I was born in the
Finger Lakes. When calling old friend back home, I always ask, "Which day
was Summer this year?"...(c;

--
Larry

That boat was made in the 1950's when the average person weighed a
sensible 140 pounds, with its 100 passenger limit the boat was a
perfectly safe vessel to operate. Now with all the fat, today the
average amererican is a fat blubbery disgrace weighing WAAAAAY over 140
poounds. IT is truly no wonder the boat sank. This is simply natures
way of cleaning out the fat. It is nothing to cry about. In fact I find
it somewhat humerous.

Look at your waste band? If your a stasticical average you are obese.
Perhaps you should have been aboard?
bob, freind to capt. neal and like minded fellows of
the sea.