Honestly guys, I gotta laugh at some of this advice. Many claim you can't
handle larger yachts without huge crew, exotic gear, and mega wallets. How
many folks here have lived on, sailed, docked, bought, or maintained 50
footers, 60 footers, or 70 footers? Look at the 60's racing non-stop around
the world by little girls.

Bryan wrote:
Honestly guys, I gotta laugh at some of this advice. Many claim you
can't handle larger yachts without huge crew, exotic gear, and mega
wallets. How many folks here have lived on, sailed, docked, bought,
or maintained 50 footers, 60 footers, or 70 footers? Look at the
60's racing non-stop around the world by little girls.

That's what most of us do. Look at 'em. BTW, do _you_ do anything
different?

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

Well, Isabelle and Ellen are little girls, so is my wife, she weighs 120
pounds. They do not bench 350 pounds and will never be stronger or bigger
than most guys. That said, they are great sailors with substantial
acomplishment, more than I will ever achieve. They also sail very large
boats with no power winches, huge rigs, in very demanding conditions. So
if these girls can sail large boats, why can't a couple cruise a 50, 60, or
70 footer as a team? When cruisng you have the benefit of going in good
weather versus racing when you leave when the race starts. What exotic gear
is on a Vendee that is not on a typical cruising boat?




"Armond Perretta" wrote in message
...
Bryan wrote:
Honestly guys, I gotta laugh at some of this advice. Many claim you
can't handle larger yachts without huge crew, exotic gear, and mega
wallets. How many folks here have lived on, sailed, docked, bought,
or maintained 50 footers, 60 footers, or 70 footers? Look at the
60's racing non-stop around the world by little girls.

That's what most of us do. Look at 'em. BTW, do _you_ do anything
different?

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

"Bryan" wrote:

Well, Isabelle and Ellen are little girls, so is my wife, she weighs 120
pounds. They do not bench 350 pounds and will never be stronger or bigger

You can call your wife a girl if you want to, but I don't think
Isabelle and Ellen are actually little girls. They are little or
small or petite women. I don't see what benching 350 lbs has to do
with anything. I don't think my husband can do that either, and
neither can most men (or boys).

than most guys. That said, they are great sailors with substantial
acomplishment, more than I will ever achieve. They also sail very large
boats with no power winches, huge rigs, in very demanding conditions. So
if these girls can sail large boats, why can't a couple cruise a 50, 60, or
70 footer as a team? When cruisng you have the benefit of going in good

If something happens to one of the team the weaker member should be
able to handle the boat alone.

weather versus racing when you leave when the race starts. What exotic gear

If you are doing a long passage, you probably are going to run into
weather regardless of when you leave or how carefully you watch the
weather.

is on a Vendee that is not on a typical cruising boat?

They have better communication gear and someone is monitoring their
progress.

"Armond Perretta" wrote in message
...
Bryan wrote:
Honestly guys, I gotta laugh at some of this advice. Many claim you
can't handle larger yachts without huge crew, exotic gear, and mega
wallets. How many folks here have lived on, sailed, docked, bought,
or maintained 50 footers, 60 footers, or 70 footers? Look at the
60's racing non-stop around the world by little girls.

That's what most of us do. Look at 'em. BTW, do _you_ do anything
different?

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

grandma Rosalie

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
"Bryan" wrote:

Well, Isabelle and Ellen are little girls, so is my wife, she weighs 120
pounds. They do not bench 350 pounds and will never be stronger or bigger

You can call your wife a girl if you want to, but I don't think
Isabelle and Ellen are actually little girls. They are little or
small or petite women. I don't see what benching 350 lbs has to do
with anything. I don't think my husband can do that either, and
neither can most men (or boys).

Well Rosalie,

Girls are girls and boys are boys and symatics are symantics. When I spoke
of the fairer sex I spoke in terms of brute strength, girls (sorry, gentle
ladies) are not as strong as boys (Ooops, gentleman) in general but as
witnessed by the success of girl (Darn, gentle lady) sailors that does not
matter when sailing. If I miss a spot please feel free to substitute girl
with any of the following lady/woman/madam/Miss/Mrs/Ms/gentle lady.......



than most guys. That said, they are great sailors with substantial
acomplishment, more than I will ever achieve. They also sail very large
boats with no power winches, huge rigs, in very demanding conditions. So
if these girls can sail large boats, why can't a couple cruise a 50, 60,
or
70 footer as a team? When cruisng you have the benefit of going in good

If something happens to one of the team the weaker member should be
able to handle the boat alone.

I agree completely but what does the size of the boat have to do with
handling it? Gear is sized accordingly and none of us can bench 350, well
most of us.


weather versus racing when you leave when the race starts. What exotic
gear

If you are doing a long passage, you probably are going to run into
weather regardless of when you leave or how carefully you watch the
weather.

If you are on a larger faster boat your chances of sailing in bad weather
are greatly reduced.


is on a Vendee that is not on a typical cruising boat?

They have better communication gear and someone is monitoring their
progress.

So? You still have to sail the boat not the guy (sorry gentleman) on the
other end of the radio. I doubt Herb is coming to help.

You sound like fun Grandma Rosalie!


"Armond Perretta" wrote in message
...
Bryan wrote:
Honestly guys, I gotta laugh at some of this advice. Many claim you
can't handle larger yachts without huge crew, exotic gear, and mega
wallets. How many folks here have lived on, sailed, docked, bought,
or maintained 50 footers, 60 footers, or 70 footers? Look at the
60's racing non-stop around the world by little girls.

That's what most of us do. Look at 'em. BTW, do _you_ do anything
different?

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

grandma Rosalie

"Bryan" wrote:
"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
"Bryan" wrote:

Well, Isabelle and Ellen are little girls, so is my wife, she weighs 120
pounds. They do not bench 350 pounds and will never be stronger or bigger

You can call your wife a girl if you want to, but I don't think
Isabelle and Ellen are actually little girls. They are little or
small or petite women. I don't see what benching 350 lbs has to do
with anything. I don't think my husband can do that either, and
neither can most men (or boys).

Well Rosalie,

Girls are girls and boys are boys and symatics are symantics. When I spoke
of the fairer sex I spoke in terms of brute strength, girls (sorry, gentle
ladies) are not as strong as boys (Ooops, gentleman) in general but as
witnessed by the success of girl (Darn, gentle lady) sailors that does not
matter when sailing. If I miss a spot please feel free to substitute girl

I think that you have to be there to appreciate how condescending it
sounds to call grown women "girls". I don't think you would address a
black man as "boy" would you?

And making it seem like someone is making a big fuss over nothing is
one of the ways that people resist changing their terminology and
their basic attitudes.

*I* can call another woman a girl. You can call your wife a girl.
And I don't go with calling a chairman a chairperson because that's a
bit silly. But to me a little girl would be my 5 yo granddaughter. A
big girl would be my college age granddaughter. And anyone older than
that would surely no longer be a girl.

with any of the following lady/woman/madam/Miss/Mrs/Ms/gentle lady.......

than most guys. That said, they are great sailors with substantial
acomplishment, more than I will ever achieve. They also sail very large
boats with no power winches, huge rigs, in very demanding conditions. So
if these girls can sail large boats, why can't a couple cruise a 50, 60,
or
70 footer as a team? When cruisng you have the benefit of going in good

If something happens to one of the team the weaker member should be
able to handle the boat alone.

I agree completely but what does the size of the boat have to do with
handling it? Gear is sized accordingly and none of us can bench 350, well
most of us.

weather versus racing when you leave when the race starts. What exotic
gear

If you are doing a long passage, you probably are going to run into
weather regardless of when you leave or how carefully you watch the
weather.

If you are on a larger faster boat your chances of sailing in bad weather
are greatly reduced.

Not that much unless it is a REALLY fast boat. I hear this all the
time, but really - what chance did any boat in the Gulf have of
outrunning Katrina? And where would they have had to go to get out of
the way?

is on a Vendee that is not on a typical cruising boat?

They have better communication gear and someone is monitoring their
progress.

So? You still have to sail the boat not the guy (sorry gentleman) on the

I used to call the male persons that went to college with me guys
because I didn't think they were men yet and didn't want to call them
boys. Guys doesn't seem as fraught. And anyway, I'm not one. You
can call them guys-- if they don't object, I won't because it is not
my place to do so.

other end of the radio. I doubt Herb is coming to help.

Yes but you asked what differences there are and that is one that I
could name without being really aware of what the big race boats have
in the way of equipment.

Come to think of it they probably also have better, newer and more
high tech sails and maybe more of them (different kinds). They are
probably also more homogeneous in the equipment that they carry as
there are all varieties of cruising boats.
\
You sound like fun Grandma Rosalie!

I like a little discussion from time to time.

"Armond Perretta" wrote in message
...
Bryan wrote:
Honestly guys, I gotta laugh at some of this advice. Many claim you
can't handle larger yachts without huge crew, exotic gear, and mega
wallets. How many folks here have lived on, sailed, docked, bought,

I do agree that you don't need huge crew, exotic gear etc. We have a
manual windlass and no electric winches. Bit if I were to want to
single hand (as I've said elsewhere), I would get a smaller boat.

or maintained 50 footers, 60 footers, or 70 footers? Look at the
60's racing non-stop around the world by little girls.

That's what most of us do. Look at 'em. BTW, do _you_ do anything
different?

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

grandma Rosalie


grandma Rosalie

"Bryan" wrote:

Honestly guys, I gotta laugh at some of this advice. Many claim you can't
handle larger yachts without huge crew, exotic gear, and mega wallets. How
many folks here have lived on, sailed, docked, bought, or maintained 50
footers, 60 footers, or 70 footers? Look at the 60's racing non-stop around
the world by little girls.

Two people isn't a huge crew. Going non-stop on a state of the art
racing boat is a vastly different type of sailing from going in and
out of a strange marina or anchorage every night with a second hand
heavier boat. And Ellen McD. deserves not to be called a little girl.
How condescending.

We have a boat which is called a 44, but really measures 50 feet.
We've lived on and docked and maintained this boat. It is really a
bit big for us to handle - can be done alone, but very difficult,
especially the docking part and especially with wind and/or current..

I don't think you need exotic gear and a mega wallet but IMO 50 feet
is the maximum that an older couple can handle themselves without
help, not to mention that the whole thing becomes way more expensive.


grandma Rosalie

Madame, I am 30 and my usual crew is younger. I do not consider myself
"older". I think 50 ft is aproaching the top limit. (I sail a CR38).
Of course, I do not think people buy 60 foot boats with the intent of
"downgrading" when they get "older". But at any rate. (I hope I do
not sound offended. I've read your postings with great respect.)

I do not think you have to consider what boat is too big for a crew of
two to handle. I think any "crew of two" should be able to at least
hobble somewhere single-handed. Things do not happen in isolation: if
something happens which disables one of your crew, chances are it also
may have disabled some part of your boat. Chances are the winds are
stiff and the seas are high. Chances are sea spray may have disabled
those push-button winches (did we replace those cables before we left
dock last time or did some head issue take precedence?)

Racing is another story altogether. I (used to) go four-wheel-driving
in remote places. A lot of 4wd people like to point at the stuff
racing cars, winners of derbys etc, put on their cars. I learned then:
racing equipment is designed to last as long as the race, and no
longer. Racers cannot afford the extra weight associated with
heavily-built, long-lasting equipment. When racing, your objective is
not to get from point A to point B. (Many cruisers have done so, after
all.) Your objective is to get ther first. What happens afterwards
does not matter. When cruising on the other hand, it is not sufficient
to get to poitn B. You plan to then be on your way to point C, point
D, etc. (How many racers live on their boats?)

(I do not mean to distract from the racers. I just hope to show that
the objectives are differnet, the equipment are more different. (note
here that another objective of racing is to make money, if only enough
to fund your next race. Cruisers do not expect to make money on their
cruisng.) And Ms. Ellen McD. has won very much respect from me, fwiw.)

But to my original point: when all is well and all your crew is at
100%, then we all may be able to handle a 60-footer with a crew of two.
But most crusing folks I've talked to, from 30 to I-don't-dare-guess,
have a story of an illness: Crew 1 had a bad shoulder; Crew 2 was
feverish. Crew 1 got seasick; crew 2(autopilot/vane) gave up; I've
myself been both feverish and seasick.

M. Bryan, I would be very interested to know of your acquaintances who
live aboard, and cruise, aboard a 50, 60, or 70 footer. I hope to be
able to do so; I hope to learn something from them.

Always learning.

-Y

The OP was Bryan, and I thought it was his first name and I assumed he
was a male person because most of the people here are. He was the one
who said

I gotta laugh at some of this advice. Many claim you can't
handle larger yachts without huge crew, exotic gear, and mega wallets. How
many folks here have lived on, sailed, docked, bought, or maintained 50
footers, 60 footers, or 70 footers? Look at the 60's racing non-stop around
the world by little girls.

I was disputing that.

So I'm confused as to whether you are disagreeing with me or with
Bryan? It sounds like you agree with me. You aren't an older couple,
but you seem to agree with me that racing is not the same as cruising
and that 50 ft is approaching the top limit.

"mickey" wrote:

Madame, I am 30 and my usual crew is younger. I do not consider myself
"older". I think 50 ft is aproaching the top limit. (I sail a CR38).
Of course, I do not think people buy 60 foot boats with the intent of
"downgrading" when they get "older". But at any rate. (I hope I do
not sound offended. I've read your postings with great respect.)

I do not think you have to consider what boat is too big for a crew of
two to handle. I think any "crew of two" should be able to at least
hobble somewhere single-handed. Things do not happen in isolation: if
something happens which disables one of your crew, chances are it also
may have disabled some part of your boat. Chances are the winds are
stiff and the seas are high. Chances are sea spray may have disabled
those push-button winches (did we replace those cables before we left
dock last time or did some head issue take precedence?)

Racing is another story altogether. I (used to) go four-wheel-driving
in remote places. A lot of 4wd people like to point at the stuff
racing cars, winners of derbys etc, put on their cars. I learned then:
racing equipment is designed to last as long as the race, and no
longer. Racers cannot afford the extra weight associated with
heavily-built, long-lasting equipment. When racing, your objective is
not to get from point A to point B. (Many cruisers have done so, after
all.) Your objective is to get ther first. What happens afterwards
does not matter. When cruising on the other hand, it is not sufficient
to get to poitn B. You plan to then be on your way to point C, point
D, etc. (How many racers live on their boats?)

(I do not mean to distract from the racers. I just hope to show that
the objectives are differnet, the equipment are more different. (note
here that another objective of racing is to make money, if only enough
to fund your next race. Cruisers do not expect to make money on their
cruisng.) And Ms. Ellen McD. has won very much respect from me, fwiw.)

But to my original point: when all is well and all your crew is at
100%, then we all may be able to handle a 60-footer with a crew of two.
But most crusing folks I've talked to, from 30 to I-don't-dare-guess,
have a story of an illness: Crew 1 had a bad shoulder; Crew 2 was
feverish. Crew 1 got seasick; crew 2(autopilot/vane) gave up; I've
myself been both feverish and seasick.

M. Bryan, I would be very interested to know of your acquaintances who
live aboard, and cruise, aboard a 50, 60, or 70 footer. I hope to be
able to do so; I hope to learn something from them.

Always learning.

-Y

grandma Rosalie

I don't think you need exotic gear and a mega wallet but IMO 50 feet
is the maximum that an older couple can handle themselves without
help, not to mention that the whole thing becomes way more expensive

I tend to agree. My wife and I are presently living and cruising on a
50 footer. I wouldn't want to handle or maintain a boat much larger,
and frankly don't see any need to, unless you have professional crew to
house or a large family.