Dave wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:16:29 GMT, Rosalie B.
said:

I think that you have to be there to appreciate how condescending it
sounds to call grown women "girls". I don't think you would address a
black man as "boy" would you?

Bad analogy. His use of the term had nothing to do with race. A rational

Sex discrimination and race discrimination are BOTH discrimination.
So the analogy was to discrimination. Not to race discrimination.

person would address whether use of the term "boy" to refer to an adult
male, regardless of his race, is offensive. Problem is that when you

I don't think so. It wouldn't be offensive for me as a senior citizen
to call a younger male (non black) person such as a college age or
high school age male a boy. Depending on when you think a person
becomes an adult.

So if you don't like the analogy to 'boy', how about calling a short
male person "a little man"? It would be accurate wouldn't it?

approach it in that fashion the argument isn't very persuasive, since it
doesn't drag in the irrelevant and emotionally charged issue of
discrimination on the basis of race..

And making it seem like someone is making a big fuss over nothing is
one of the ways that people resist changing their terminology and
their basic attitudes.

Not a matter of "seeming." I do resist changing my terminology. Nothing
wrong with my basic attitude. (With my only child's being a daughter I have
a personal interest in non-discriminatory treatment of women.) I'm simply
irritated by folks who insist on jumping on a soap box for their favorite
cause at the least excuse.

Some terminology changes ARE just really silly. Like chairperson for
chairman or post person for postman.

And this isn't one of my favorite cause either. Most of the time I
personally find it sort of funny, and I sometimes use the prejudices
of people to my advantage. Sometimes people look at me and see a fat
old woman and assume I'm also stupid. I didn't disabuse them of this
attitude when I was working as an inspector (although I have been
charged with entrapment - IMO they trapped themselves) because it made
my job a little easier.

It just hit me wrong that Bryan was calling Ellen a 'little girl'.

Dave
(Who still starts his business letters to corporate recipients with
"Gentlemen:")

grandma Rosalie

Watch the films made by and about Ellen to see some differences in these
boats.
Also, for being a little "girl", Ellen has some big cajones!! ;)
Gordon


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:16:29 GMT, Rosalie B.
said:

I think that you have to be there to appreciate how condescending it
sounds to call grown women "girls". I don't think you would address a
black man as "boy" would you?

Bad analogy. His use of the term had nothing to do with race. A rational

Sex discrimination and race discrimination are BOTH discrimination.
So the analogy was to discrimination. Not to race discrimination.

person would address whether use of the term "boy" to refer to an adult
male, regardless of his race, is offensive. Problem is that when you

I don't think so. It wouldn't be offensive for me as a senior citizen
to call a younger male (non black) person such as a college age or
high school age male a boy. Depending on when you think a person
becomes an adult.

So if you don't like the analogy to 'boy', how about calling a short
male person "a little man"? It would be accurate wouldn't it?

approach it in that fashion the argument isn't very persuasive, since it
doesn't drag in the irrelevant and emotionally charged issue of
discrimination on the basis of race..

And making it seem like someone is making a big fuss over nothing is
one of the ways that people resist changing their terminology and
their basic attitudes.

Not a matter of "seeming." I do resist changing my terminology. Nothing
wrong with my basic attitude. (With my only child's being a daughter I
have
a personal interest in non-discriminatory treatment of women.) I'm simply
irritated by folks who insist on jumping on a soap box for their favorite
cause at the least excuse.

Some terminology changes ARE just really silly. Like chairperson for
chairman or post person for postman.

And this isn't one of my favorite cause either. Most of the time I
personally find it sort of funny, and I sometimes use the prejudices
of people to my advantage. Sometimes people look at me and see a fat
old woman and assume I'm also stupid. I didn't disabuse them of this
attitude when I was working as an inspector (although I have been
charged with entrapment - IMO they trapped themselves) because it made
my job a little easier.

It just hit me wrong that Bryan was calling Ellen a 'little girl'.

Dave
(Who still starts his business letters to corporate recipients with
"Gentlemen:")

grandma Rosalie

Grandma R wrote It just hit me wrong that Bryan was calling Ellen a 'little
girl'.

Maybe it's just an age thing. Often when racing, a call for consensus comes
up and a common phrase is: "Well boy's, what do we want to do here". The
crew is all grown men but when on board it feels like a boys club.

Regardless of my terminology. Ellen and Isabelle have proven what can be
done on large yachts with a minimal crew of petite ladies. Better or
stuffy?

You are fun Grandma R, I'll bet you would have fit right in the Isabelle
and Ellen mold in your day.

Bryan


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:16:29 GMT, Rosalie B.
said:

I think that you have to be there to appreciate how condescending it
sounds to call grown women "girls". I don't think you would address a
black man as "boy" would you?

Bad analogy. His use of the term had nothing to do with race. A rational

Sex discrimination and race discrimination are BOTH discrimination.
So the analogy was to discrimination. Not to race discrimination.

person would address whether use of the term "boy" to refer to an adult
male, regardless of his race, is offensive. Problem is that when you

I don't think so. It wouldn't be offensive for me as a senior citizen
to call a younger male (non black) person such as a college age or
high school age male a boy. Depending on when you think a person
becomes an adult.

So if you don't like the analogy to 'boy', how about calling a short
male person "a little man"? It would be accurate wouldn't it?

approach it in that fashion the argument isn't very persuasive, since it
doesn't drag in the irrelevant and emotionally charged issue of
discrimination on the basis of race..

And making it seem like someone is making a big fuss over nothing is
one of the ways that people resist changing their terminology and
their basic attitudes.

Not a matter of "seeming." I do resist changing my terminology. Nothing
wrong with my basic attitude. (With my only child's being a daughter I
have
a personal interest in non-discriminatory treatment of women.) I'm simply
irritated by folks who insist on jumping on a soap box for their favorite
cause at the least excuse.

Some terminology changes ARE just really silly. Like chairperson for
chairman or post person for postman.

And this isn't one of my favorite cause either. Most of the time I
personally find it sort of funny, and I sometimes use the prejudices
of people to my advantage. Sometimes people look at me and see a fat
old woman and assume I'm also stupid. I didn't disabuse them of this
attitude when I was working as an inspector (although I have been
charged with entrapment - IMO they trapped themselves) because it made
my job a little easier.

It just hit me wrong that Bryan was calling Ellen a 'little girl'.

Dave
(Who still starts his business letters to corporate recipients with
"Gentlemen:")

grandma Rosalie

Rosalie B. wrote:
Dave wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:16:29 GMT, Rosalie B.
said:

I think that you have to be there to appreciate how condescending it
sounds to call grown women "girls". I don't think you would address a
black man as "boy" would you?

Bad analogy. His use of the term had nothing to do with race. A rational

Sex discrimination and race discrimination are BOTH discrimination.
So the analogy was to discrimination. Not to race discrimination.

person would address whether use of the term "boy" to refer to an adult
male, regardless of his race, is offensive. Problem is that when you

I don't think so. It wouldn't be offensive for me as a senior citizen
to call a younger male (non black) person such as a college age or
high school age male a boy. Depending on when you think a person
becomes an adult.


Maybe it's not "my place" to have an opinion on this since I'm "not
one," but I've always found this sensitivity on some women's part to
the term "girl," to be silly. Seems to me that there's nothing
pejorative about the word, and that the terms "girl" and "woman" are
not mutually exclusive....in my eyes anyway, an adult female is
(hopefully) both. And speaking on behalf of us guys if I may, I don't
think we would ever take offense at being referred to as "boy," I don't
know, it doesn't bother me and I know I'm a man too. Kind of a mix of
characteristics of both depending on the situation. At the office or
taking care of my kids, I'm pretty much a grown-up and a man, but when
zooming around on my waverunner or screaming my head off at a rock
concert, say, hopefully I'll always be that little kid at heart as they
say.

richforman