Jeff--
Many thanks for a detailed and knowledgeable reply. The box on our boat
is 9 cubic feet, and all we really need is what the Adler/Barbour unit
provided. It served us well, and I'm looking only to replace that
service--with another A/D or, as I queried, an up-to-date technology
from another manufacturers.

Thanks again.

Dick

Jeff wrote:
A lot depends on the size of your fridge and how you use it. If you can
go into a bit of detail, such as the size of the box(es), freezer
requirements, and the nature of your cruising, you might get better
advice. For example, if you cruise in cold water, a water cooled system
would be more efficient. But if you power each day (or run a genset for
A/C) then the power issues might not be important to you.

I have larger Crosby (actually part of A/B) holding plate system for a
separate fridge and freezer system that I've had a love/hate
relationship with. When I pull a steak out of the freezer that's
frozen down to zero degrees, I'm happy. But when I don't need the
freezer, its a real annoyance to use 70 to 100 Amp-hours a day on the
system. And of course, one small leak and the whole system is down.
(This happened twice in 7 seasons, and both times was detected in home
port, not while traveling.)

If I were building my system now, I might consider having two systems
based on the new Danfoss compressors. While perhaps not the most
efficient in total, having two systems for the two boxes would give more
flexibility in case one is lost.

Danfoss is the "hermetic" sealed compressor your A/B is based on, and is
used in most of the smaller systems today. Of course, the units have
changed in the last 20 years, and each company has some "special
technology" that makes theirs the best. You might look over
www.rparts.com to get a free education about the components in use
today. They carry the latest Danfoss units and this will give you a
baseline to see if you're getting your money's worth from whichever
system you decide on.





Dick Behan wrote:

The 20-year-old Adler/Barbour unit on our Victory Tug has expired.
Can't complain about the service, but what do you cruisers out there
think about replacing it? Go with Adler/Barbour again, or is there a
more up-to-date technology (and product) you'd recommend as superior?
TIA.

Dick Behan
M/V ANNIE

Dick Behan wrote:
The 20-year-old Adler/Barbour unit on our Victory Tug has expired. Can't
complain about the service, but what do you cruisers out there think
about replacing it? Go with Adler/Barbour again, or is there a more
up-to-date technology (and product) you'd recommend as superior?
TIA.

Dick Behan
M/V ANNIE
Thanks a million, folks, for the good knowledgeable discussion.

Dick

"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message
...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:
Jeff wrote:

Again, this may be true, but it might not be appropriate for all
systems. Adding a thru-hull and more components probably isn't worth a
few Amp-hours savings.


It's more than that... water cooling may save a lot o' bucks by using a
smaller unit. And it's more desirable in the tropics, where the ambient
air temp is higher. As air temp gets above the 80s, trying to air cool a
refrig'n condenser gets to be a losing proposition.

So you chose air cooled. How come?

One of the little ironies is that in cold water, the air in the bilge may
be much cooler than on deck or in the engine room. I never bothered to
measure, but I wonder if that's also true in the tropics.

As for savings - the cost difference between the BD50 and BD35 is pretty
small - certainly much less than a through hull, pump, and condenser.
However, once you get larger its clear that water cooling has advantages.

BTW, my father-in-law, an HVAC engineer and inventor, rigged up his home
A/C to heat the swimming pool water with the waste heat. It worked great
for a number of years, but now that he's 84 and his war injuries have
caught up to him, he has trouble maintaining it. With the extra
plumbing, its possible to loose the pool water, and then be without both
pool and A/C.


Another alternative is the keel cooler. At least two companies now are
making thru-hulls chambered & fitted for refrigeration keel cooling, so
you don't have to drill any more holes in your hull.

Some may be interested in my current project, 98% complete at this
point: installing a freezer built into our dinette seat. After a LOT of
research and spreadsheeting all the numbers, I decided on a Waeco
(Adler-Barbour) CU-84 (based on the Danfoss BD-35) air cooled
refrigeration unit, with an exhaust to the outside. The box is insulated
on 5 sides with R-28 vacuum panels. I am currently finishing the lids, a
relatively demanding bit of fiberglassing that I don't recommend.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...89712634CcPfiT
(next 7 pics)

I like this setup. As I've mentioned before, using one compressor for
both fridge and freezer can be a problem. The BD35 gives a lot of bang
for the buck.



Fresh Breezes- Doug King


I've gotten great service out of my spillover system. Cold plates in the
freezer only.
Thermostacally controlled vent into the fridge side. Large boxes. Probably
3 cuft
in the freezer and 12 cuft in the fridge.

Doug
s/v Callista

Oops! Correct that! 6 cuft in the freezer.

Doug

"Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote:

Some may be interested in my current project, 98% complete at this point:
installing a freezer built into our dinette seat. After a LOT of research
and spreadsheeting all the numbers, I decided on a Waeco (Adler-Barbour)
CU-84 (based on the Danfoss BD-35) air cooled refrigeration unit, with an
exhaust to the outside. The box is insulated on 5 sides with R-28 vacuum
panels. I am currently finishing the lids, a relatively demanding bit of
fiberglassing that I don't recommend.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...89712634CcPfiT
(next 7 pics)

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I gotta ask - why the carbon fiber in a freezer?

Evan Gatehouse

You lost me Evan. Where was carbon fiber mentioned?

Doug
s/v CAllista

Evan Gatehouse wrote:
I gotta ask - why the carbon fiber in a freezer?


Umm, I can explain that...

A long term project is building a carbon fiber dinghy... in the course
of working up to actually building it, I've been practicing laying up
some carbon fiber panels. Might as well use them for something, and the
freezer bottom & lids need to be strong enough to withstand 'cruiser use.'

I'm extremely flattered that you looked closely at the pictures!

BTW most of the CF panels I've layed are earmarked for use as knees,
hooks, & other small flat pieces of the eventual Doug's Perfect Dinghy.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Doug Dotson wrote:
"Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message
...

DSK wrote:


Some may be interested in my current project, 98% complete at this point:
installing a freezer built into our dinette seat. After a LOT of research
and spreadsheeting all the numbers, I decided on a Waeco (Adler-Barbour)
CU-84 (based on the Danfoss BD-35) air cooled refrigeration unit, with an
exhaust to the outside. The box is insulated on 5 sides with R-28 vacuum
panels. I am currently finishing the lids, a relatively demanding bit of
fiberglassing that I don't recommend.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...89712634CcPfiT
(next 7 pics)

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I gotta ask - why the carbon fiber in a freezer?

Evan Gatehouse


You lost me Evan. Where was carbon fiber mentioned?

Doug
s/v CAllista

This picture in your album:

P1000793
Putting in the evap plate & fiberglass panels. Panels are
epoxied together at each corner with a pre-molded fillet.
The front f'glass panel has core-mat & carbon fiber; the
bottomg panel is 4 layers of 8oz f'glass + 3 layers of 5oz
carbon fiber. (pic orientat'n: up = stb'd, left = fwd)

Evan

Evan Gatehouse wrote:
This picture in your album:


It's the other Doug!

P1000793
Putting in the evap plate & fiberglass panels. Panels are epoxied
together at each corner with a pre-molded fillet. The front f'glass
panel has core-mat & carbon fiber; the bottomg panel is 4 layers of 8oz
f'glass + 3 layers of 5oz carbon fiber. (pic orientat'n: up = stb'd,
left = fwd)


The carbon fiber was added after both my wife & I decided that the
bottom panel was too weak & flexy to take having stuff piled on it,
dropped on it, etc etc... picture accidentally dropping a gallon tub of
ice cream, and having to tear out the whole freezer to replace the
bottom vacuum insulation panel... but it was overkill. 1 layer CF on
top, 2 layers on the bottom, and you could drive a small car over the thing!

Regards
Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
news
Evan Gatehouse wrote:
This picture in your album:


It's the other Doug!

P1000793
Putting in the evap plate & fiberglass panels. Panels are epoxied
together at each corner with a pre-molded fillet. The front f'glass panel
has core-mat & carbon fiber; the bottomg panel is 4 layers of 8oz f'glass
+ 3 layers of 5oz carbon fiber. (pic orientat'n: up = stb'd, left = fwd)


The carbon fiber was added after both my wife & I decided that the bottom
panel was too weak & flexy to take having stuff piled on it, dropped on
it, etc etc... picture accidentally dropping a gallon tub of ice cream,
and having to tear out the whole freezer to replace the bottom vacuum
insulation panel... but it was overkill. 1 layer CF on top, 2 layers on
the bottom, and you could drive a small car over the thing!

Regards
Doug King

I didn;t see that picture. Only one picture showed up in my browser.

Doug

"ahoy" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 18:18:46 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:


"jeannette" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:01:57 -0400, Jeff wrote:

It may be true that water cooled is usually more efficient, but for a
minimal system based on a BD35, the added efficiency may not be worth
the power use of a water pump. This is a small issue with a large
holding plate system because it only runs one or two hours a day, but
the small evaporator based system may run 8 hours a day, and the water
pump would then add a lot of overhead. And, it adds a through-hull,
strainer and plumbing, and can get clogged with silt. This may be
worthwhile Downeast, where the water is 52 degrees, but might not be
in the tropics.


The solution is: "Isotherm SP" for self pumping cooling with no moving
parts. I have one for 2 years now and it never missed a bit.

http://www.e-marine-inc.com/products...ation/faq.html

Jeannette
Bristol 32, San Carlos, Mexico
http://www.eblw.com/contepartiro/contepartiro.html

Looks like a system much like the Frikkin-Boat except the heat enchanger
in in the sink drain. OK for a small systems.

Doug
s/v Callista

I don't get any refer hits (cough) for the term "Frikkin-Boat".

www.frigoboat.com

Are
there details for a DIY system somewhere?

Check out Richard Kollman's book.

Thanks.