Jere Lull wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:


On my CDI furler, the RF jib is initially raised up the furler by means
of a halyard built into the furler. The sail must have a #6 foil
rather than hanks. Would it really be any trouble to change sails?
With the current set-up, this would involve a trip to the bow but so
would changing a sail with a conventional system.



A prefeeder is a good idea. It's easy to jam the sail --and enlarge the
slot-- if you're in a hurry.

Changing sails on a CDI isn't as easy as some, so I would do it
primarily at anchor. When we're out and things blow up, I partially furl
and live with the decreased performance rather than risk my hide.


The beauty of a hanked jib with downhaul is that if you decide to
change jibs, one pull on the downhaul and the sail in on deck,
easing motion considerably. A little siezing and it will stay
there, still hanked on, while the main is reefed, or a smaller jib
is hanked above it onto the forestay. This is half a dozen or so
hanks sticking out the front of a jib bag, not some monster flailing
and flogging while you try to get it up. Snap on the tack pennant,
change halyard connections and sheets, if you don't keep sheets
attached to each spare sail, even pre leading them with the whole
mess ready to pop out of the forehatch when you pull on the halyard
from the cockpit.

It's a small thing to do, really, nothing like pulling a soaking
sail down the forehatch, then prefeeding it's replacement, hoping it
will prefeed all in one go and where is the halyard located? Manage
that while singlhanding.

When winds ease, taking off a small jib and then hauling up the big
lazy jib already hanked on is easy.

I had a furler, and it's problems, that's why I prefer the idea
mentioned above. It's do-able, cheap, and dependable. Did I mention
sailing performance when the weather gets snotty?

Is it safer to worry about changing or bagging along as it gets
rougher and rougher, and when you need the performance, and have a
huge wild bag to stow loose on deck and all over the place?

Terry K

Terry Spragg wrote:

The beauty of a hanked jib with downhaul is that if you decide to
change jibs, one pull on the downhaul and the sail in on deck,
easing motion considerably. A little siezing and it will stay
there, still hanked on, while the main is reefed, or a smaller jib
is hanked above it onto the forestay. This is half a dozen or so
hanks sticking out the front of a jib bag, not some monster flailing
and flogging while you try to get it up. Snap on the tack pennant,
change halyard connections and sheets, if you don't keep sheets
attached to each spare sail, even pre leading them with the whole
mess ready to pop out of the forehatch when you pull on the halyard
from the cockpit.

It's a small thing to do, really, nothing like pulling a soaking
sail down the forehatch, then prefeeding it's replacement, hoping it
will prefeed all in one go and where is the halyard located? Manage
that while singlhanding.

When winds ease, taking off a small jib and then hauling up the big
lazy jib already hanked on is easy.

I had a furler, and it's problems, that's why I prefer the idea
mentioned above. It's do-able, cheap, and dependable. Did I mention
sailing performance when the weather gets snotty?

Is it safer to worry about changing or bagging along as it gets
rougher and rougher, and when you need the performance, and have a
huge wild bag to stow loose on deck and all over the place?

I've been using hanked-on sails and a jib downhaul for years, and I think
the system has merit (obviously). However singing this system's praises
without mentioning the "cons" is oversimplification.

First, the downhaul itself is an additional component of the running
rigging, requiring shackles, blocks, cleats, fairleads, etc. (or at least
_some_ of these).

Next, the downhaul has to run either inside the hanks (usually not good), or
alongside the headstay. In this position, and depending on the point of
sail, it slaps against the luff, causing chafe and just one more unwelcome
noise.

Next, it is the rare set up that allows the jib to be handed with only a
single pull on the downhaul. Usually there is some hang-up or friction that
means going forward to make adjustments.

All in all, I think it's a good rig if furlers are not chosen, but it is
useful to add in both sides of the issue.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

My question was really just a sneaky attempt to re-start the furling vs
non-furling headsail religious argument. I have issued a fatwa against
all who disagree with me.

wrote:
My question was really just a sneaky attempt to re-start the furling
vs non-furling headsail religious argument. I have issued a fatwa
against all who disagree with me.

Judging from what I have bothered to read, _all_ of your questions are
"sneaky attempts to re-start" discussions on subjects that have been hashed
here many times and for many years. You seem to be the only person who
doesn't realize this.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

wrote:

My question was really just a sneaky attempt to re-start the furling vs
non-furling headsail religious argument. I have issued a fatwa against
all who disagree with me.


And obviously haven't the guts to announce your standpoint until the
winner is known?

Terry K

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:54:20 -0300, Terry Spragg
wrote:

wrote:

My question was really just a sneaky attempt to re-start the furling vs
non-furling headsail religious argument. I have issued a fatwa against
all who disagree with me.


And obviously haven't the guts to announce your standpoint until the
winner is known?


Well, that's one thing, but I don't think you can call a "winner" on
this issue. Really, unless you're a racer and understand the logic of
hank-ons, it's strictly a rearguard action. Furling has won.

Having said that, I have converted more than one luff tape racing
foresail into a hank-on genoa/jib. That's how I got a Spectra/Mylar
No. 1 for $200: "not good enough for racing" means five years of fast
cruising for me.

This year I am converting a perfectly good Dacron No. 3/working jib
from a C&C 34R to my needs with a $125 tape-luff to hank on
conversion. The thing is almost new and needs no recutting (for my
needs, anyway, as I don't sail to a PHRF rule); it was simply packed
away nicely when the PO went to $12K worth of composite sails.

Racers with high standards and deep pockets are an amazing resource of
Spectra, Vectran and "retired" Dacron for the frugal cruiser.

R.

I am certain that my CDI furling sail is capable of sailing far better
than I am capable of doing. When I feel that the gap between my sails
capabilities and my capabilities gets reasonably small, I might
consider upgrading.

wrote:
I am certain that my CDI furling sail is capable of sailing far better
than I am capable of doing. When I feel that the gap between my sails
capabilities and my capabilities gets reasonably small, I might
consider upgrading.


Good on ya. The most valuable resource to a sailor, is patience.

Do you use a well fitted jib often? That's the same as "How often is
the wind just right for your sail?" How does one improve skills
without practice? A well tailored jib is a lesson in flight
dynamics, and a well balanced boat is different to sail than a
plowboat with overlarge air brakes fighting each other.

Terry K

rhys wrote:

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:54:20 -0300, Terry Spragg
wrote:


wrote:


My question was really just a sneaky attempt to re-start the furling vs
non-furling headsail religious argument. I have issued a fatwa against
all who disagree with me.


And obviously haven't the guts to announce your standpoint until the
winner is known?



Well, that's one thing, but I don't think you can call a "winner" on
this issue. Really, unless you're a racer and understand the logic of
hank-ons, it's strictly a rearguard action. Furling has won.

Having said that, I have converted more than one luff tape racing
foresail into a hank-on genoa/jib. That's how I got a Spectra/Mylar
No. 1 for $200: "not good enough for racing" means five years of fast
cruising for me.

This year I am converting a perfectly good Dacron No. 3/working jib
from a C&C 34R to my needs with a $125 tape-luff to hank on
conversion. The thing is almost new and needs no recutting (for my
needs, anyway, as I don't sail to a PHRF rule); it was simply packed
away nicely when the PO went to $12K worth of composite sails.

Racers with high standards and deep pockets are an amazing resource of
Spectra, Vectran and "retired" Dacron for the frugal cruiser.

R.

Excellant!

Where do you find your sails?

Terry K

Armond Perretta wrote:

Terry Spragg wrote:

The beauty of a hanked jib with downhaul is that if you decide to
change jibs, one pull on the downhaul and the sail in on deck,
easing motion considerably. A little siezing and it will stay
there, still hanked on, while the main is reefed, or a smaller jib
is hanked above it onto the forestay. This is half a dozen or so
hanks sticking out the front of a jib bag, not some monster flailing
and flogging while you try to get it up. Snap on the tack pennant,
change halyard connections and sheets, if you don't keep sheets
attached to each spare sail, even pre leading them with the whole
mess ready to pop out of the forehatch when you pull on the halyard
from the cockpit.

It's a small thing to do, really, nothing like pulling a soaking
sail down the forehatch, then prefeeding it's replacement, hoping it
will prefeed all in one go and where is the halyard located? Manage
that while singlhanding.

When winds ease, taking off a small jib and then hauling up the big
lazy jib already hanked on is easy.

I had a furler, and it's problems, that's why I prefer the idea
mentioned above. It's do-able, cheap, and dependable. Did I mention
sailing performance when the weather gets snotty?

Is it safer to worry about changing or bagging along as it gets
rougher and rougher, and when you need the performance, and have a
huge wild bag to stow loose on deck and all over the place?


I've been using hanked-on sails and a jib downhaul for years, and I think
the system has merit (obviously). However singing this system's praises
without mentioning the "cons" is oversimplification.

First, the downhaul itself is an additional component of the running
rigging, requiring shackles, blocks, cleats, fairleads, etc. (or at least
_some_ of these).

Next, the downhaul has to run either inside the hanks (usually not good), or
alongside the headstay. In this position, and depending on the point of
sail, it slaps against the luff, causing chafe and just one more unwelcome
noise.

Next, it is the rare set up that allows the jib to be handed with only a
single pull on the downhaul. Usually there is some hang-up or friction that
means going forward to make adjustments.

All in all, I think it's a good rig if furlers are not chosen, but it is
useful to add in both sides of the issue.

That is all true, but a well managed downhaul and halyard is better
than changing any other jib system I know of. Mine only needs to be
led inside the first hank.

There's a lot less to go wrong.

Terry K