"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in
:

Anyone care to discuss the relative reliability of
autopilots(electric/electronic) vs wind vanes for sail boats? Are wind
vanes still widely used?

BS


Lionheart, an Amel 41' ketch, is steered with a B&G Network Pilot electro-
hydraulic autopilot directly on the steering post under the aft cabin bed.
Its hydraulic cylinder is attached to the rudder post bellcrank with a
small ball joint, a miniature trailer hitch ball. Even if the entire
steering cable system fails (it looks like a heavy outboard flexible system
with dual enclosed flexcables), we can still steer the boat from the helm
or from the remote control box, providing there is DC power to run it. DC
power is two banks of L-16H 6V monsters. Power R' Us.

The only problem we've had with it is the chinzy way B&G attaches the
linear feedback sensor to the hydraulic cylinder, which comes loose
eventually and must be retightened and calibrated if you're not careful.
They buy this sensor from another manufacturer and don't seem to know how
to attach it to their cylinder, reliably.

As to operation, I have no trouble sleeping right on top of the running
hydraulic pump system, which only runs when the cylinder needs moving. You
can't hear it out of the aft cabin in the rest of the boat. From the
center cockpit, it's as if a ghost were at the helm...(c;

There are 3 modes....computer/chart plotter...or...its own compass
sensor...or...B&G Network Wind instrument on top of the mainmast, which
steers it on the wind like an extraordinary windvane would. All this is
selected from the Pilot's panel display, same size as the other B&G Network
sailing instruments in the helm's panel. It accepts NMEA0183 data very
well from our computer under The Cap'n nav software, either the RAymarine
RL70CRC radar/chart plotter, or the old Garmin 185 GPS/Chartplotter/Sonar
or from the Yeoman paper chart plotter's waypoints under our chart table
cover.

As with any autopilot, when the going gets rough, it's as useless as any of
them when it gets lost.....and you're left to steer by hand lock to lock
trying against hell to hold her on a course....with the wind sensor
spinning around crazy, the compass sensor being churned by being thrown
about and all the rudder in the world unable to steer the damned boat....

--
Larry

In Larry writes:

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in
:

Anyone care to discuss the relative reliability of
autopilots(electric/electronic) vs wind vanes for sail boats? Are wind
vanes still widely used?

BS


Lionheart, an Amel 41' ketch, is steered with a B&G Network Pilot electro-
hydraulic autopilot directly on the steering post under the aft cabin bed.
Its hydraulic cylinder is attached to the rudder post bellcrank with a
small ball joint, a miniature trailer hitch ball. Even if the entire
steering cable system fails (it looks like a heavy outboard flexible system
with dual enclosed flexcables), we can still steer the boat from the helm
or from the remote control box, providing there is DC power to run it. DC
power is two banks of L-16H 6V monsters. Power R' Us.

The only problem we've had with it is the chinzy way B&G attaches the
linear feedback sensor to the hydraulic cylinder, which comes loose
eventually and must be retightened and calibrated if you're not careful.
They buy this sensor from another manufacturer and don't seem to know how
to attach it to their cylinder, reliably.

As to operation, I have no trouble sleeping right on top of the running
hydraulic pump system, which only runs when the cylinder needs moving. You
can't hear it out of the aft cabin in the rest of the boat. From the
center cockpit, it's as if a ghost were at the helm...(c;

There are 3 modes....computer/chart plotter...or...its own compass
sensor...or...B&G Network Wind instrument on top of the mainmast, which
steers it on the wind like an extraordinary windvane would. All this is
selected from the Pilot's panel display, same size as the other B&G Network
sailing instruments in the helm's panel. It accepts NMEA0183 data very
well from our computer under The Cap'n nav software, either the RAymarine
RL70CRC radar/chart plotter, or the old Garmin 185 GPS/Chartplotter/Sonar
or from the Yeoman paper chart plotter's waypoints under our chart table
cover.

As with any autopilot, when the going gets rough, it's as useless as any of
them when it gets lost.....and you're left to steer by hand lock to lock
trying against hell to hold her on a course....with the wind sensor
spinning around crazy, the compass sensor being churned by being thrown
about and all the rudder in the world unable to steer the damned boat....

You cave the best argument for the windvane. The autopilots how
expensive one you ever buy, is for the fair weather. When the going gets
rough, the windvane will carry you trhough.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Anyone care to discuss the relative reliability of
autopilots(electric/electronic) vs wind vanes for sail boats? Are wind
vanes
still widely used?

BS


There is a great free online book here
http://www.windpilot.com/Grafiken/pdf/bookeng.pdf

Have sailed with a few of these and have nothing but praise for the
windpilot.

garry

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 08:17:14 -0700, "Robert or Karen Swarts"
wrote:

Anyone care to discuss the relative reliability of
autopilots(electric/electronic) vs wind vanes for sail boats? Are wind vanes
still widely used?

BS


You ask about relative reliability.
In our 50ft 23 tonnes Reinke we've mounted a Simrad AP300X and a
Robertson hydraulic pump.
Works fine, never had a problem (mounted in 1997)
Uses a lot of power (my guess is with normal conditions (4-6 bft) it
consumes 3 amp average) for that reason we don't use it at sea.

For the longer trips we have a Windpilot Pacific Plus.
Take a look at http://www.windpilot.com

I agree with Lauri that these devices don't apply to the same area's
so comparing reliability seems a bit unnecessary. I have two additions
to his (imo very good) info:

1) What you ask for is comparing a mechanical instrument with an
electronic/mechanical one. My experience with electronics is bad (in
average).... As Lauri says, with correct maintenance (keeping the salt
out, occ. lubricating) a Windpilot windvane will last decades. For our
Windpilot it makes sense to carry some (inexpensive) spares, steering
rods, SS-mounting pins.
When you buy the last version there is nothing (yet) known as a
vulnerable part. When you buy a pre-1998 model you could consider
replacing the rudder with the last model.

2) When you install a windvane as a seperate rudder (the site explains
if necessary) you will have to immobilize your main rudder (after
you've set it in the fine trim).
A mechanical main rudder is no problem here but a hydraulic system
will always leak a little bit of hydr oil inside the cylinder.
Therefor you will have to design and build a means of immobilizing the
rudder mechanically. When you leave this behind the sideways-pressure
on the main rudder will press oil through the inside o-rings in the
cilinder and your rudder will alter its position, slowly but
certainly. It's effect is like pulling the handbrake more and more....
The way this mechanical immobilizing device is designed and built is
another factor specifying reliability.

Just my 2 cts,
Regards, Len.

I want to thank all of you who responded. Despite the minor flame between
Lauri and Brian, I found the replies most interesting and informative. They
seem to show a clear preference for autopilots for short term, fair weather
applications and sail changes, and the wind vane for serious blue water
sailing.

Bob Swarts

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Anyone care to discuss the relative reliability of
autopilots(electric/electronic) vs wind vanes for sail boats? Are wind
vanes still widely used?

BS