In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

With the wind, current, and sternwalk, this boat can't be brought to a
stop without ending up far from the dock and the stern too far out to
get a line ashore or in the space of the boat that will soon be next
door. The line to hold against the sternwalk yaw is an essential part
of stopping the boat. That means someone has to step off while the
boat is still moving.

Our technique involves keeping all lines on the dock. I have one
specific line to pick up as I come in, the spring from the outermost
"inside" piling that drops over the winch. Once I put that line on, I
can power forward all I want and not hit the dock. Twiddling the rudder
moves the bow port or starboard so my crew can pick up the bow lines
without stretching too far. Once those three lines are on, the motor can
be killed and the other lines dropped on.

We're small and maneuverable enough that I can reach that spring by
hand; others may need to grab it with a hook.

I spliced loops into the lines so they're "drop and forget", which makes
life a lot simpler.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Good plan.

We're in training mode here so I'm trying to use our home dock to
teach us the things we'll need to know elsewhere. Just like moving
most of the sail handling lines from the cockpit to the mast, we're
doing many things the hard way for a greater purpose.

--

Roger Long



"Jere Lull" wrote

Our technique involves keeping all lines on the dock. I have one
specific line to pick up as I come in, the spring from the outermost
"inside" piling that drops over the winch. Once I put that line on,
I
can power forward all I want and not hit the dock. Twiddling the
rudder
moves the bow port or starboard so my crew can pick up the bow lines
without stretching too far. Once those three lines are on, the motor
can
be killed and the other lines dropped on.

We're small and maneuverable enough that I can reach that spring by
hand; others may need to grab it with a hook.

I spliced loops into the lines so they're "drop and forget", which
makes
life a lot simpler.

"Roger Long" wrote:

Good plan.

We're in training mode here so I'm trying to use our home dock to
teach us the things we'll need to know elsewhere. Just like moving
most of the sail handling lines from the cockpit to the mast, we're
doing many things the hard way for a greater purpose.

When we come into a strange dock, Bob puts ***at least*** 6 lines out.
Two bow, 2 stern and 2 midships. They are attached to the boat and go
through the fairleads and coiled draped back over the lifelines. That
way no matter which way we come into the dock, there's always an
appropriate line already rigged AND attached to the boat.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen boaters approaching the
dock, and then have to go looking in the lockers for lines. Usually,
but not always, power boaters. I've even seen a shrimp boat coming
into the gas dock at Palmer Johnson in Thunderbolt who threw a dock
line to the dock master without securing the other end to the boat.

I don't jump. Ever. I may step off if the boat is close enough to do
that and if the dock isn't too different in level from the deck, but
that's really rare. We had a visitor that attempted to leap from our
deck with a line at the Dismal Swamp Visitor's Center, and he slipped
and went down between the two boats and almost into the water. He was
really badly bruised in the ribs and it was fortunate that he got back
on deck before the boats 'met'.

I try to give the midships line to a dock person if there is one. We
rarely come into a dock where there is no dock person. (I am not too
proud to make it clear when I call that we need assistance) In that
case, Bob has to get the boat up close enough to some piling or other
attachment point so that I can put the line around it and secure it.


grandma Rosalie

Jere Lull wrote:

In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

With the wind, current, and sternwalk, this boat can't be brought to a
stop without ending up far from the dock and the stern too far out to
get a line ashore or in the space of the boat that will soon be next
door. The line to hold against the sternwalk yaw is an essential part
of stopping the boat. That means someone has to step off while the
boat is still moving.

Our technique involves keeping all lines on the dock.

We do the same at our home marina. All the lines are on the pilings -
makes it much simpler because all we have to do is pick up the
midships spring lines and hold the boat there while we get the rest of
the rear lines.

I have one
specific line to pick up as I come in, the spring from the outermost
"inside" piling that drops over the winch. Once I put that line on, I
can power forward all I want and not hit the dock. Twiddling the rudder
moves the bow port or starboard so my crew can pick up the bow lines
without stretching too far. Once those three lines are on, the motor can
be killed and the other lines dropped on.

We're small and maneuverable enough that I can reach that spring by
hand; others may need to grab it with a hook.

I spliced loops into the lines so they're "drop and forget", which makes
life a lot simpler.

We just have chafe gear on the lines at the point where they go
through the hawse holes or wherever they come aboard the boat. That
way I can pull the line through and cleat it off on the boat and if I
have the chafe gear in the proper place the line will be the right
length.

We are big enough that we have boat hooks for each lines person. If
we have to move the boat against any wind or current, it takes two of
us, so we aren't that maneuverable.

grandma Rosalie

Well, you did better yesterday than we did. :-) Newly acquired
Fischer 37, no familiarity with her, first time into her 40' of tight
berth (boats at both ends that weren't there when we first delivered
her) approachable only in from the side, 12kt breeze right off the beam
sending her in, little 4" wood dock bollards that won't take much pull,
and those sadistically placed exposed steel straps & bolts some
dockbuilders can't seem to do without. Cap't (not I) a little too
timid with the unfamiliar throttle. No Chinese firedrill & a gingerly
step ashore for me, but some nice long paint scars incurred while we
tried to help his confidence by chanting: "Bob is the best!!! Bob is
the best!!!". ;-) Were it a big RO/RO ferry or a Panamax OBO he
could've docked her perfectly without tugs & he's done that 1,000
times, but you know how it goes when one gets one's own BOAT. :-)

Getting her off hours earlier in the same conditions was "interesting"
too, until we realized how to back her out against a fwd springer
without raking her bow down the dock. All we had to do upon reberthing
was repeat the same evolution, but that was too simple & easy for us to
do. This is what 6 hours of perfect water & air can do to otherwise
reasonable men.

So, Altair now has a semipermanent reminder of our initial ineptitude &
good cheer.

It could've been much worse - the neighboring dockparty drunks could've
been around screaming obscenities...

You should (well, might) be able to control the boat without anyone
jumping to the the dock.

If you have an after spring already cleated at the bow such that the
eye just reaches a dock cleat, all you have to do is snag the cleat as
you go by. Admittedly, this is easier said than done, but I have a
line with 6 feet of lifeline cable fed into the single braid, and so
far, my wife has been able to snag the cleat if I can get the bow
close. With your lower freeboard, and more agile kids, it should be
easy, and they still have the opportunity to jump to the dock.

Once you're snubbed on that, you can stay idling in forward, and use
the rudder to swing the bow or stern in as needed. The dynamics will,
of course, vary from boat to boat, and you may needed to play some
with the attachment points.

Yesterday, I used this technique to come in with the wind blowing 10
knots off the dock. Once snubbed, we were stopped a few feet behind
the boat in front, and with a little throttle I could tuck in the
stern and hold the boat against the dock.



Roger Long wrote:
For those of you who read and responded to my docking angst:

It’s a great feeling when it starts coming together. We returned late
yesterday afternoon tired and burnt from our first overnight and
headwinds all the way back. The docking scenario was the usual for our
slip, strong quartering tailwind blowing the boat off the dock which
is on the side the reverse sternwalk swings away from. The ebb tide
also runs across these slips in about the same direction as the wind
so everything is resisting stopping the boat and pushing it away from
the finger dock.

We didn’t have the tide to cope with last night but the same method
has worked well on days that it did with the same shore breeze. This
docking began with the discovery that someone had docked a damaged
boat with the mast on deck sticking about ten feet out into our
already tight turning area. My wife has finally learned that yelling,
"You’re too close to that boat!" isn’t a necessary part of the docking
procedure and my kids interestedly inspected the masthead as it went
by about eight inches away.

As we swung into the slip, a neighboring transient boat owner ran over
and then just stood there as the lines went ashore and the boat
stopped. He said, "I was going to help but the young men seem to have
it completely under control. They really know what they are doing."
That made everybody feel pretty good.

Here’s what’s working for us if anyone else is still struggling with
this:

Bow and stern lines laid out along the rail amidships to the boarding
gate. Aft spring only coiled and ready to go. One kid takes each line
and jumps as soon as the end of the dock reaches midships. Their
instructions are simple, pull the slack out the line, get two round
turns on the cleat as quickly as they can, hold. Don’t wait for any
instructions.

With the stern line on, I can back as hard as necessary to stop and
hold the boat. I can get the boat so the linehandlers step off across
just a few inches of water but the boat still ends up about six feet
out by the time the lines are on. I then pull and release the stern
line as my son holds and takes up the slack to pull the stern in.
Intermittent applications of reverse keep us in position. When the
boat is close enough for the sternson to reach the spring line, he
cleats it and sets the spring. Then it’s engines off and pull the bow
in. Forward spring is set at leisure.

I’ve done this with just one line handler and it works just as well as
long as the stern line goes on first with a couple of additional
diagonal turns. We’re at the point now where we can do the whole
evolution without a word being spoken so we’re going to start looking
very smooth to the loungers on the other boats.

Here’s our undocking procedu

Cast off lines.

Brief application of reverse until boat starts to move and then
neutral as I learned from this newsgroup.

Son tending dinghy drops painter which he forgot to secure as ordered
(or maybe it slipped off the cleat).

Other son yells.

Stop boat which starts to swing into piling.

Son reaches down and grabs dinghy painter.

Resume backing out.

Snap hook (now replaced) twists in such a way as strain come on
painter that it pops off. Son yells. Helmsman gets that deer in the
headlights look.

Other son has presence of mind to grab boathook, snare dinghy thwart,
and hold on.

Continue reverse towing dinghy with boathook.

Watch bow swing and anchor miss piling by quarter inch.

Get clear, stop, and secure dinghy.

Motor sedately away as if it was all planned.

Yes, it’s great when it all starts coming together.

How large is your boat? Ours is fairly heavy for a 32 footer and,
even at the minimum speed for rudder authority, it would be quite a
jerk coming up against a hard loop like that with the current behind
us. Cushioning with reverse would draw the stern out assisted by the
springing effect. Big recovery with lots of forward power then to get
the stern back in.

Missing the loop wouldn't allow thought and action time to get the
engine in reverse before running up on the main dock. Our finger is
just the length of our boat.

I tried all sorts of spring line scenarios first because of my large
boat experience which resulted in some good shows for our neighbors.
When my kids are more experienced line handlers and know how to ease
and hold without shouted instructions, I'll probably go back to using
springs more. Right now, I'm trying to keep line loads, especially
sudden ones, to a minimum since inexperienced fingers are holding
lines close to cleats.

The nice thing about my current method is that the sideways sternwalk
force is the largest line pull aside from windage. Nice and easy, no
dock contact, no vessel inertia against the lines.

When the wind is from the northwest, it's easy. Just pull up, stop,
and blow in.

--

Roger Long



"Jeff" wrote in message
...
You should (well, might) be able to control the boat without anyone
jumping to the the dock.

If you have an after spring already cleated at the bow such that the
eye just reaches a dock cleat, all you have to do is snag the cleat
as you go by. Admittedly, this is easier said than done, but I have
a

Roger Long wrote:
How large is your boat? Ours is fairly heavy for a 32 footer and,
even at the minimum speed for rudder authority, it would be quite a
jerk coming up against a hard loop like that with the current behind
us. Cushioning with reverse would draw the stern out assisted by the
springing effect. Big recovery with lots of forward power then to get
the stern back in.

I have a 36 foot catamaran, with a fair amount of windage and not much
weight (about 10,000 lbs loaded) and not much keel efficiency at low
speed. My problem is that I'm on a face, with large boats in front
and behind, so I have to work the boat sideways, often against the wind.

You don't want to snub up suddenly, but if you can glide in and simply
burn off speed this technique might work for you. Once the boat is
stopped, you can use as much forward as needed to draw the stern back
in - in fact, you should be able to waggle the boat back and forth
with the helm.



Missing the loop wouldn't allow thought and action time to get the
engine in reverse before running up on the main dock. Our finger is
just the length of our boat.

You have the full length of the boat, which must be the same space
you're already using. Remember, all you actually have to do is bring
the bow to the tip of the finger and then ease the boat in. Once the
spring is attached, several degrees of freedom have been removed from
the system.



I tried all sorts of spring line scenarios first because of my large
boat experience which resulted in some good shows for our neighbors.
When my kids are more experienced line handlers and know how to ease
and hold without shouted instructions, I'll probably go back to using
springs more. Right now, I'm trying to keep line loads, especially
sudden ones, to a minimum since inexperienced fingers are holding
lines close to cleats.

I had to go to this because bystanders would tend to grab the nearest
line and cleat it randomly, often leaving use dangling 15 feet away
from the dock. By stay focused on getting one preset line on the
proper cleat, I then have full control from the helm.





The nice thing about my current method is that the sideways sternwalk
force is the largest line pull aside from windage. Nice and easy, no
dock contact, no vessel inertia against the lines.

Its fine as long as you have enough hands.


When the wind is from the northwest, it's easy. Just pull up, stop,
and blow in.


Yup. Murphy's Law, however. The wind is always worst when there's no
one on the dock to help.

Certainly a very sound method and probably the best option for getting
into a spot like yours. It's also one we need to learn. We're still
at the stage where I'm trying to minimize the feeding out of lines. I
have great respect for the inertia of 12,000 pounds at even minimum
speed if a loop takes a finger or foot into a chock.

--

Roger Long

In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

How large is your boat? Ours is fairly heavy for a 32 footer and,
even at the minimum speed for rudder authority, it would be quite a
jerk coming up against a hard loop like that with the current behind
us. Cushioning with reverse would draw the stern out assisted by the
springing effect. Big recovery with lots of forward power then to get
the stern back in.

Have you tried a short, hard reverse and noticed the effect on prop
walk? We're 7,000+ pounds, swinging a 16" 3-blade and that stops or
starts us straight with a quick burst. At minimum reverse and a
hard-over rudder, I can flip the boat in about its length with prop walk.

All boats differ, of course.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/