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#1
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Keith Hughes wrote in
news 
Having spent a fair amount of time trying to validate such systems in pharmaceutical water plants, I'm highly dubious. It can be done, at small flow rates and long exposures, but it is *sanitization* not sterilization. Bacteria are fairly adept at repairing UV induced damage. And UV doesn't kill the bacteria, typically, just makes them unable to reproduce. Keith, I noticed these small RO systems put in boats use quite a bit more pressure than the commercial units, say for a muni water system. Wouldn't that make them break down the dead bacterium much faster, releasing their toxins into the water supply? -- Larry This jerk called my cellphone and was nasty. Continental Warranty -- MCG Enterprises -- Mepco- 24955 Pacific Coast HWY Suite C303 Malibu California 90265 888-244-0925 Fax: 310-456-8844 Email: Read about them he http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp...3&view=printer |
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#2
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Larry,
Keith, I noticed these small RO systems put in boats use quite a bit more pressure than the commercial units, say for a muni water system. Wouldn't that make them break down the dead bacterium much faster, releasing their toxins into the water supply? I doubt it. The water bugs that create the biofilm are pretty tolerant of pressure, they just balance internal and exterior pressure. Hardy little beasts. I would certainly expect a higher level of membrane compaction, shortening the life, and a much greater propensity for o-ring and membrane failure. The additional pressure will, of course, help move any cellular debris through any holes, including the membrane 'pores'. Most of the commercial systems I've dealt with operate closer to 600-650 psig, and they still have leakage problems. Keith |
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#3
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Keith Hughes wrote in
: to 600-650 psig, and they still have leakage problems. I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... -- Larry This jerk called my cellphone and was nasty. Continental Warranty -- MCG Enterprises -- Mepco- 24955 Pacific Coast HWY Suite C303 Malibu California 90265 888-244-0925 Fax: 310-456-8844 Email: Read about them he http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp...3&view=printer |
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#4
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On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:47:35 -0400,
Larry wrote: Keith Hughes wrote in : to 600-650 psig, and they still have leakage problems. I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... How much power does it take to make a gallon of fresh water from seawater with your distillers? -- Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock Silence is one of the most effective forms of communication. |
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#5
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On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:32:24 -0700, Jim Richardson
wrote: On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:47:35 -0400, Larry wrote: Keith Hughes wrote in : to 600-650 psig, and they still have leakage problems. I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... How much power does it take to make a gallon of fresh water from seawater with your distillers? Hmmm...let's pencil in the numbers on back of an envelope. A (US) gallon of water is 8 lb that's 8/2.2 kg = 3.636kg = 3636 gm From 20 degC, it takes 80 cal to get to BP then 540 cal/gm to get to steam. Totals....3636 X (80 + 540) = 2.254 Mcal = 9.5 MJ So if you could be happy with one gal/hr, it would take 9.5 MJ.hr or 9.5MJ / 60X 60 = 2.63 kilowatts. But some or all those heating watts could maybe get returned to the feedwater from the distilled water, and that's the trick to cutting the power consumption of a still. Or how about a low vacuum process, so the water feed boils at low temp? Brian Whatcott Altus, OK |
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#6
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On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:08:26 GMT,
Brian Whatcott wrote: On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:32:24 -0700, Jim Richardson wrote: On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:47:35 -0400, Larry wrote: Keith Hughes wrote in : to 600-650 psig, and they still have leakage problems. I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... I love my distillers.... How much power does it take to make a gallon of fresh water from seawater with your distillers? Hmmm...let's pencil in the numbers on back of an envelope. A (US) gallon of water is 8 lb that's 8/2.2 kg = 3.636kg = 3636 gm From 20 degC, it takes 80 cal to get to BP then 540 cal/gm to get to steam. Totals....3636 X (80 + 540) = 2.254 Mcal = 9.5 MJ So if you could be happy with one gal/hr, it would take 9.5 MJ.hr or 9.5MJ / 60X 60 = 2.63 kilowatts. But some or all those heating watts could maybe get returned to the feedwater from the distilled water, and that's the trick to cutting the power consumption of a still. Or how about a low vacuum process, so the water feed boils at low temp? Brian Whatcott Altus, OK It was somewhat of a rhetorical question, but thanks for the numbers  As an aside, while pulling a vacuum will enable lower temp distillation, I don't think you reduce your energy load any, just using a different method, which may be easier to get, (mechanical, rather than electrical) Distilation may make sense in large power boats, (read, 100' and up) with plenty of waste heat, but it's not going to work well for small sailboats. At some point, a distilation system would make more sense than an RO system, but it's going to need a fairly large vessel for that. And this ignores the issues of scaling in the boiler with salt water as feed stock. -- Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock Words fail me. Thank goodness I can make gestures. -- Mark Hughes (in asr - 2001 |
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#8
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Brian Whatcott wrote in
news
But some or all those heating watts could maybe get returned to the feedwater from the distilled water, and that's the trick to cutting the power consumption of a still. Or how about a low vacuum process, so the water feed boils at low temp? Brian Whatcott Altus, OK What "power"? How much "power" (heat) is available in the exhaust of a Detroit Diesel burning 20-30 gallons an hour at 30% efficiency? God, heat is EASY in a power boat....going to waste up the stacks. -- Larry This jerk called my cellphone and was nasty. Continental Warranty -- MCG Enterprises -- Mepco- 24955 Pacific Coast HWY Suite C303 Malibu California 90265 888-244-0925 Fax: 310-456-8844 Email: Read about them he http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp...3&view=printer |
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#9
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Jim Richardson wrote in news:8qu8q2-
: How much power does it take to make a gallon of fresh water from seawater with your distillers? 25c at 8c/kWH from South Carolina Electric and Gouge. What I can't figure out is why marine engine builders can't build a good distiller right into the engine heads. The coolant in there is BOILING, already! In yachts with dry stacks, a simple heat exchanger right in the exhaust stack would provide an amazing amount of distilled seawater in motor yachts, just like an evaporator does on a steamship. It isn't rocket science, like RO is. You need a seawater pump, already mounted on the engine that's pumping cooling water into it at some pressure, a float- regulated tank to maintain the seawater in the heat exchanger tubes perking away in the exhaust stack, and a seawater condenser using the same seawater pump on the engine to cool the steam back into distilled water. Feed that through a carbon pile filter to take out distillables like benzenes and what comes out is the freshest water in the world...no toxins, no chemicals, no bacteria leaking through tiny holes in million-dollar membranes. It would run 24/7 in a motor yacht until you ran out of tankage to store it. A backflush timer would dump the salt and residues every few hours overboard or you would have an overflow at some level to constantly lose some of the huge energy in the stack dumping it over continuously cleaning it. It's just salt and bugs and seaweed crap left over. Make it out of stainless tubes so it doesn't corrode with a zinc in it, if necessary. Distillers are FAR less complex than RO science projects....really simple devices. The boat would probably be overrun with fresh water in a yacht with twin dry-stack diesel beasts burning up 20 gallons an hour, most energy going right up that stack. Larry This jerk called my cellphone and was nasty. Continental Warranty -- MCG Enterprises -- Mepco- 24955 Pacific Coast HWY Suite C303 Malibu California 90265 888-244-0925 Fax: 310-456-8844 Email: Read about them he http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp...3&view=printer |
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#10
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On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:01:15 -0400,
Larry wrote: Jim Richardson wrote in news:8qu8q2- : How much power does it take to make a gallon of fresh water from seawater with your distillers? 25c at 8c/kWH from South Carolina Electric and Gouge. what do you do about the scale buildup in the distiller? Not that it matters much I suppose, since 3KW/h isn't exactly going to work on a sailboat not tied up to the dock, (and to shore power) What I can't figure out is why marine engine builders can't build a good distiller right into the engine heads. The coolant in there is BOILING, already! In yachts with dry stacks, a simple heat exchanger right in the exhaust stack would provide an amazing amount of distilled seawater in motor yachts, just like an evaporator does on a steamship. It isn't rocket science, like RO is. You need a seawater pump, already mounted on the engine that's pumping cooling water into it at some pressure, a float- regulated tank to maintain the seawater in the heat exchanger tubes perking away in the exhaust stack, and a seawater condenser using the same seawater pump on the engine to cool the steam back into distilled water. Feed that through a carbon pile filter to take out distillables like benzenes and what comes out is the freshest water in the world...no toxins, no chemicals, no bacteria leaking through tiny holes in million-dollar membranes. It would run 24/7 in a motor yacht until you ran out of tankage to store it. A backflush timer would dump the salt and residues every few hours overboard or you would have an overflow at some level to constantly lose some of the huge energy in the stack dumping it over continuously cleaning it. It's just salt and bugs and seaweed crap left over. Make it out of stainless tubes so it doesn't corrode with a zinc in it, if necessary. Distillers are FAR less complex than RO science projects....really simple devices. The boat would probably be overrun with fresh water in a yacht with twin dry-stack diesel beasts burning up 20 gallons an hour, most energy going right up that stack. yeah, and distillers make sense on big power boats, like fish processors, and lux yachts, can't see them working that way for a 35' sailboat though... -- Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock I came; I saw; I ****ed up |
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