I'm about to buy a boat with a Power Survivor 80 watermaker, installed in
2002. The owner died about 9 or so months ago, and there's some question as
to whether he ever used it.

I think I recall hearing that Chlorine was damaging to membranes. There are
two, about 2' long, on this model.

The broker has been flushing this system (not ever making water in the 8+
months it's been in a canal berth in Ft. Lauderdale) with city water every
few weeks, and assures me that this is proper for this model, claiming that
flushing as he does is adequate and frequent enough. Looking at the output
(overboard), it starts cloudy and goes clear.

So, is the first assertion (Chlorine is trouble) correct, and if not, does
the second assertion (this model doesn't require pickling), combined with
approximately 3-4 weeks between flushes, hold water, pardon the expression?

If there's trouble brewing, I'd greatly appreciate a link to support it, as
it's one of the items on the survey, and we're supposed to counter in a few
days...

Thanks, ever so much...

L8R

Skip and Lydia, anticipating

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

This broker doesn't know what he is doing or what he is talking about.. And
just looking at the discharge over the side doesn't prove anything..

All RO membranes are will be damaged by chlorine and if the system isn't
used regularly (once ever couple weeks) then it should have been layed up
with a pickling flush with Sodium Metabisufite solution or what ever the mfg
recommends..

If you serious about the purchase of this boat, then make your offer
contingent on a operational test of the unit by a "Qualified" person.. If
you in a major cruising port, you should be able to get someone from a RO
dealer/shop to come and check it out. Probably cost a few hundred buck
though. The surveyor isn't going to be able to tell you anything for sure.

BTW, those RO membranes aint cheap.. If you don't want to spend the money on
a technician to test the unit, then buy the boat, but subtract the estimated
cost of a pair of replacement mebranes..

--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Take off $700 from the purchase price for the replacement of the
membranes. The broker may have prevented bacterial growth but he has
ruined the membranes. They are long gone. Chlorinated water is death
to RO membranes.

If they are standard 21"x2.5" membranes you can get Filmtec SW30-2520
membranes for about $200 each but don't tell the broker that. Have him
call Pur and get their ridiculous price. :-)

Skip Gundlach wrote:

I'm about to buy a boat with a Power Survivor 80 watermaker, installed in
2002. The owner died about 9 or so months ago, and there's some question as
to whether he ever used it.

I think I recall hearing that Chlorine was damaging to membranes. There are
two, about 2' long, on this model.

The broker has been flushing this system (not ever making water in the 8+
months it's been in a canal berth in Ft. Lauderdale) with city water every
few weeks, and assures me that this is proper for this model, claiming that
flushing as he does is adequate and frequent enough. Looking at the output
(overboard), it starts cloudy and goes clear.

So, is the first assertion (Chlorine is trouble) correct, and if not, does
the second assertion (this model doesn't require pickling), combined with
approximately 3-4 weeks between flushes, hold water, pardon the expression?

If there's trouble brewing, I'd greatly appreciate a link to support it, as
it's one of the items on the survey, and we're supposed to counter in a few
days...

Thanks, ever so much...

L8R

Skip and Lydia, anticipating

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain


--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

You don't want a Power Survivor 80 or any model from PUR or their
predecessor Recovery Engineering - it's worth nothing. Suggest they
remove it and lower the price. Or pay you to remove it and they can
sell it on eBay for parts.

Second - chlorine has killed the membrane - trust me - or call PUR.



On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:30:09 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

I'm about to buy a boat with a Power Survivor 80 watermaker, installed in
2002. The owner died about 9 or so months ago, and there's some question as
to whether he ever used it.

I think I recall hearing that Chlorine was damaging to membranes. There are
two, about 2' long, on this model.

The broker has been flushing this system (not ever making water in the 8+
months it's been in a canal berth in Ft. Lauderdale) with city water every
few weeks, and assures me that this is proper for this model, claiming that
flushing as he does is adequate and frequent enough. Looking at the output
(overboard), it starts cloudy and goes clear.

So, is the first assertion (Chlorine is trouble) correct, and if not, does
the second assertion (this model doesn't require pickling), combined with
approximately 3-4 weeks between flushes, hold water, pardon the expression?

If there's trouble brewing, I'd greatly appreciate a link to support it, as
it's one of the items on the survey, and we're supposed to counter in a few
days...

Thanks, ever so much...

L8R

Skip and Lydia, anticipating

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain

Point of fact - not ALL membranes are chlorine intolerant - but normal
marine watermaker units are. There are membranes that are mfg for home
aquariums, etc that are chlorine tolerant.

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:43:36 -0800, "Steve" wrote:

This broker doesn't know what he is doing or what he is talking about.. And
just looking at the discharge over the side doesn't prove anything..

All RO membranes are will be damaged by chlorine and if the system isn't
used regularly (once ever couple weeks) then it should have been layed up
with a pickling flush with Sodium Metabisufite solution or what ever the mfg
recommends..

If you serious about the purchase of this boat, then make your offer
contingent on a operational test of the unit by a "Qualified" person.. If
you in a major cruising port, you should be able to get someone from a RO
dealer/shop to come and check it out. Probably cost a few hundred buck
though. The surveyor isn't going to be able to tell you anything for sure.

BTW, those RO membranes aint cheap.. If you don't want to spend the money on
a technician to test the unit, then buy the boat, but subtract the estimated
cost of a pair of replacement mebranes..

Sorry. Typo there. The correct number is SW30-2521 not 2520. Dow's
MSRP for the SW30-2521 is $250.00 and the srteet price is as low as
$153. Lowest price I have seen so far is at:
http://www.bigbrandwaterfilters.com/membranes.html

The 2520 is a custom length that I think only one or two WM builders
use. I don't remember which but somehow I associate that size with the
one with the titanium head pump.


Glenn Ashmore wrote:
Take off $700 from the purchase price for the replacement of the
membranes. The broker may have prevented bacterial growth but he has
ruined the membranes. They are long gone. Chlorinated water is death
to RO membranes.

If they are standard 21"x2.5" membranes you can get Filmtec SW30-2520
membranes for about $200 each but don't tell the broker that. Have him
call Pur and get their ridiculous price. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Looks like you did my research for me.. I have been considering adding one
or two more membranes to my HRO sytem (it will handle up to 3 but currently
has only one).

The membrane prices look good to me, now I need to find the pressure
vessels. Do you have any recommendations or words of wisdom on these??

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Research is my middle name. :-)

There are two basic types. The white ones with black ends are made by
A&M Composites in Houston. They have about 90% of the US market. The
ones with the molded flair ends are made in Europe and are a good bit
more expensive.

Pacific RO has the best price I have found for the A&M vessels.
http://www.pacificro.com/DePress2.htm

You need the 1000 PSI 2.5x21 model at the bottom of the page. Hint:
They don't like working with end users so sound "official" when you
call. ;-) And don't mention my name. They got a little POed after
they visited my site and figured out I was not really a "dealer".

Steve wrote:

Looks like you did my research for me.. I have been considering adding one
or two more membranes to my HRO sytem (it will handle up to 3 but currently
has only one).

The membrane prices look good to me, now I need to find the pressure
vessels. Do you have any recommendations or words of wisdom on these??

Steve
s/v Good Intentions



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Sorry. Typo there. The correct number is SW30-2521 not 2520. Dow's
MSRP for the SW30-2521 is $250.00 and the srteet price is as low as
$153. Lowest price I have seen so far is at:
http://www.bigbrandwaterfilters.com/membranes.html

Only for my education....
I have read somewhere about "home made" watermakers... but I don't rember
where...
I have made my google homework... :-) No result.
Do you have any reference, link, info?
I am interested in one small, simple unit for a sailboat...

Tank you
Paolo

I think Brent Swain gives details in one of his books. Buildable for about
$1,000 Canadian

Only for my education....
I have read somewhere about "home made" watermakers... but I don't rember
where...
I have made my google homework... :-) No result.
Do you have any reference, link, info?
I am interested in one small, simple unit for a sailboat...

Tank you
Paolo