I am on the market for another sailboat.
I have noticed that brokers and private owners are showing their price as
follows"
1. price is firm
2. must sell
3. negotiable
4. asking
5. make an offer
6. suggested
7. and others
I wonder what is the exact meaning of the above mentioned wording.
Some retired brokers are saying that used boats usually go for 5 to 10 %
below the listed price.
What should the initial offer be and how should one de-code the listed
price.
Making a low ball offer may insult the seller. The situation is how should
an offer and counter offer be made without insulting anyone and getting a
fair deal.

--
Denis

"Denis Marier" wrote:

First I wish you'd ditch that vcf thing you've got at the end of your
post. It is irritating.

I am on the market for another sailboat.
I have noticed that brokers and private owners are showing their price as
follows"

Meaning of this is

1. price is firm
The price is firm except that if the boat has been on the market a
long time and he likes you, he may be willing to dicker a bit unless
he has a loan for the amount of the price because he's not going to
take a loss even if he goes bankrupt with dockage charges.

2. must sell
I've bought another boat and I need the money from this one to pay for
that one. I'll probably be willing to accept a lower offer than the
asking price.

3. negotiable
Not negotiable except upward from a reasonable price.

4. asking
Hoping to get this but not confident that he will.

5. make an offer
Like 2

6. suggested
Like 5

7. and others
I wonder what is the exact meaning of the above mentioned wording.
Some retired brokers are saying that used boats usually go for 5 to 10 %
below the listed price.
What should the initial offer be and how should one de-code the listed
price.
Making a low ball offer may insult the seller. The situation is how should
an offer and counter offer be made without insulting anyone and getting a
fair deal.

The first requirement for knowing what to offer is to know how much
you can spend. Don't offer more than 3/4ths of that amount because
there's always something that has to be done and you want some reserve
for those things.

The second requirement is to know what you require to have in a boat.
There are some non-negotiable's here. If you want a fin keel cutter
with a skeg rudder, don't look at trawlers or full keel boats with
spade rudders.

Make a wish list for equipment. If the boat does not meet one of your
requirements for equipment that you consider essential (VHF radio,
diesel engine, reliable anchor rode and windlass), you also need to
know how much it will cost to buy that piece of equipment. Deduct
that from the price in #1 above.

The third thing you must know is what the actual market is like at the
place where the boat is for the kind of boat that it is considering
the condition it is in and the use it has had. Look at a lot of boats
before you get to the place where you want to make an offer.

Do not worry about insulting the seller unless you have put yourself
in a situation where you absolutely MUST have that particular boat.
In that case, make no offer at all - it's time to go cool off.

If the price of the boat is within the ball park of your first
requirement minus what you have deducted for #2 and that is a
reasonable price for that type of boat, make an offer that is slightly
below the asking price. Our boat was on the market for $110K and we
offered $90K and the owner counter offered $95K.

If the price of the boat is greatly inflated above the three criteria
above, it does no harm to make an offer just slightly below what you
think it is really worth AND worth to **you** (which is #1 minus #2).
If the owner is still too in love with his boat to consider your
offer, the worst he can do is say no. And you would not be getting a
fair deal if you paid his price.

If the price of the boat is way below what you think the boat should
be worth, look at it again - there must be something wrong with it
that you didn't see the first time.

Make all offers subject to survey and sea trial.


grandma Rosalie

Thanks for your comments I found very constructive.
The last boat I look at the price at $xx,xxx US reduced.
With a price tag marked as "reduced" can you still start you negotiation at
3/4 of the reduced price.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
"Denis Marier" wrote:

First I wish you'd ditch that vcf thing you've got at the end of your
post. It is irritating.

I am on the market for another sailboat.
I have noticed that brokers and private owners are showing their price as
follows"

Meaning of this is

1. price is firm
The price is firm except that if the boat has been on the market a
long time and he likes you, he may be willing to dicker a bit unless
he has a loan for the amount of the price because he's not going to
take a loss even if he goes bankrupt with dockage charges.

2. must sell
I've bought another boat and I need the money from this one to pay for
that one. I'll probably be willing to accept a lower offer than the
asking price.

3. negotiable
Not negotiable except upward from a reasonable price.

4. asking
Hoping to get this but not confident that he will.

5. make an offer
Like 2

6. suggested
Like 5

7. and others
I wonder what is the exact meaning of the above mentioned wording.
Some retired brokers are saying that used boats usually go for 5 to 10 %
below the listed price.
What should the initial offer be and how should one de-code the listed
price.
Making a low ball offer may insult the seller. The situation is how
should
an offer and counter offer be made without insulting anyone and getting a
fair deal.

The first requirement for knowing what to offer is to know how much
you can spend. Don't offer more than 3/4ths of that amount because
there's always something that has to be done and you want some reserve
for those things.

The second requirement is to know what you require to have in a boat.
There are some non-negotiable's here. If you want a fin keel cutter
with a skeg rudder, don't look at trawlers or full keel boats with
spade rudders.

Make a wish list for equipment. If the boat does not meet one of your
requirements for equipment that you consider essential (VHF radio,
diesel engine, reliable anchor rode and windlass), you also need to
know how much it will cost to buy that piece of equipment. Deduct
that from the price in #1 above.

The third thing you must know is what the actual market is like at the
place where the boat is for the kind of boat that it is considering
the condition it is in and the use it has had. Look at a lot of boats
before you get to the place where you want to make an offer.

Do not worry about insulting the seller unless you have put yourself
in a situation where you absolutely MUST have that particular boat.
In that case, make no offer at all - it's time to go cool off.

If the price of the boat is within the ball park of your first
requirement minus what you have deducted for #2 and that is a
reasonable price for that type of boat, make an offer that is slightly
below the asking price. Our boat was on the market for $110K and we
offered $90K and the owner counter offered $95K.

If the price of the boat is greatly inflated above the three criteria
above, it does no harm to make an offer just slightly below what you
think it is really worth AND worth to **you** (which is #1 minus #2).
If the owner is still too in love with his boat to consider your
offer, the worst he can do is say no. And you would not be getting a
fair deal if you paid his price.

If the price of the boat is way below what you think the boat should
be worth, look at it again - there must be something wrong with it
that you didn't see the first time.

Make all offers subject to survey and sea trial.


grandma Rosalie

"Denis Marier" wrote:

Thanks for your comments I found very constructive.

I wrote that more or less tongue in cheek.

The last boat I look at the price at $xx,xxx US reduced.
With a price tag marked as "reduced" can you still start you negotiation at
3/4 of the reduced price.

It is impossible to say - this is an imprecise 'science'.

I keep track of all the CSYs for sale through Yacht World, and I write
down the asking price for each one every couple of months. I can
therefore track the initial price and the dropping prices until it
drops out of sight either because it is sold or because the owner has
gotten discouraged or decided not to sell after all.

I think there is a database which has the actual selling prices of the
boats, but it may not be completely accurate, and I don't know how to
access it. There is also a 'blue book' price on various boats, and it
gives the differences in prices for different areas of the country
(for instance Florida boats are worth less).

This also gives me an idea of what is a reasonable price and also an
idea of how desperate the owner might be, and what the condition of
the boat might be (since boats that are for sale may deteriorate).
Sometimes I also talk to owners (sellers and buyers) and marina
managers, and I often see the boats in person. Sometimes I even talk
to brokers.

So if you wanted to buy a CSY and asked me about a specific one, I
could tell you the history and maybe other information about the boat.
Otherwise, I don't know.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
"Denis Marier" wrote:

First I wish you'd ditch that vcf thing you've got at the end of your
post. It is irritating.

I am on the market for another sailboat.
I have noticed that brokers and private owners are showing their price as
follows"

Meaning of this is

1. price is firm
The price is firm except that if the boat has been on the market a
long time and he likes you, he may be willing to dicker a bit unless
he has a loan for the amount of the price because he's not going to
take a loss even if he goes bankrupt with dockage charges.

2. must sell
I've bought another boat and I need the money from this one to pay for
that one. I'll probably be willing to accept a lower offer than the
asking price.

3. negotiable
Not negotiable except upward from a reasonable price.

4. asking
Hoping to get this but not confident that he will.

5. make an offer
Like 2

6. suggested
Like 5

7. and others
I wonder what is the exact meaning of the above mentioned wording.
Some retired brokers are saying that used boats usually go for 5 to 10 %
below the listed price.
What should the initial offer be and how should one de-code the listed
price.
Making a low ball offer may insult the seller. The situation is how
should
an offer and counter offer be made without insulting anyone and getting a
fair deal.

The first requirement for knowing what to offer is to know how much
you can spend. Don't offer more than 3/4ths of that amount because
there's always something that has to be done and you want some reserve
for those things.

The second requirement is to know what you require to have in a boat.
There are some non-negotiable's here. If you want a fin keel cutter
with a skeg rudder, don't look at trawlers or full keel boats with
spade rudders.

Make a wish list for equipment. If the boat does not meet one of your
requirements for equipment that you consider essential (VHF radio,
diesel engine, reliable anchor rode and windlass), you also need to
know how much it will cost to buy that piece of equipment. Deduct
that from the price in #1 above.

The third thing you must know is what the actual market is like at the
place where the boat is for the kind of boat that it is considering
the condition it is in and the use it has had. Look at a lot of boats
before you get to the place where you want to make an offer.

Do not worry about insulting the seller unless you have put yourself
in a situation where you absolutely MUST have that particular boat.
In that case, make no offer at all - it's time to go cool off.

If the price of the boat is within the ball park of your first
requirement minus what you have deducted for #2 and that is a
reasonable price for that type of boat, make an offer that is slightly
below the asking price. Our boat was on the market for $110K and we
offered $90K and the owner counter offered $95K.

If the price of the boat is greatly inflated above the three criteria
above, it does no harm to make an offer just slightly below what you
think it is really worth AND worth to **you** (which is #1 minus #2).
If the owner is still too in love with his boat to consider your
offer, the worst he can do is say no. And you would not be getting a
fair deal if you paid his price.

If the price of the boat is way below what you think the boat should
be worth, look at it again - there must be something wrong with it
that you didn't see the first time.

Make all offers subject to survey and sea trial.


grandma Rosalie


grandma Rosalie

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your comments I found very constructive.
The last boat I look at the price at $xx,xxx US reduced.
With a price tag marked as "reduced" can you still start you negotiation
at
3/4 of the reduced price.


You can start negotiation anywhere you want. The only downside is that if
you start at a price that the seller sees as completely ridiculous then he
might get ticked off or at least conclude that you are not a serious buyer.
The fact that the price was reduced means nothing - perhaps it was too high
to start with!


--
Peter Aitken

In article ,
"Peter Aitken" wrote:

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your comments I found very constructive.
The last boat I look at the price at $xx,xxx US reduced.
With a price tag marked as "reduced" can you still start you negotiation
at
3/4 of the reduced price.


You can start negotiation anywhere you want. The only downside is that if
you start at a price that the seller sees as completely ridiculous then he
might get ticked off or at least conclude that you are not a serious buyer.
The fact that the price was reduced means nothing - perhaps it was too high
to start with!

All true, as was Rosalie's. Her tongue wasn't too far in her cheek.

Friend of ours is a surveyor, so can estimate value pretty quickly.
Found "the" boat at a more-than-reasonable price -- the owner was
desperate -- but got greedy and lowballed the price. Someone else who
knew the market got the boat at asking price.

Desperation and impatience sometimes creates incredible deals. A
sister-ship to ours had a $3500 offer accepted (something like $3k under
asking), but the buyers backed out. Boat was in better shape than ours,
which is depressing. The engine by itself is worth that. Hell, the bare
hull is worth that, but such is the market.

Know what you really want and what you can actually use. Know the market
and values. Walk away until you "find your center" when you "have" to
have *that* boat. There is (almost) always a better boat, a better deal.

Personally, I don't even look at electronics, assuming it'll need to be
replaced within a couple of seasons.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

I appreciate everyone's comments concerning this subject.
After collecting all kind of information on boats having being surveyed my
confidence level is questionable. This could be the subject of another
tread.

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Peter Aitken" wrote:

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your comments I found very constructive.
The last boat I look at the price at $xx,xxx US reduced.
With a price tag marked as "reduced" can you still start you
negotiation
at
3/4 of the reduced price.


You can start negotiation anywhere you want. The only downside is that
if
you start at a price that the seller sees as completely ridiculous then
he
might get ticked off or at least conclude that you are not a serious
buyer.
The fact that the price was reduced means nothing - perhaps it was too
high
to start with!

All true, as was Rosalie's. Her tongue wasn't too far in her cheek.

Friend of ours is a surveyor, so can estimate value pretty quickly.
Found "the" boat at a more-than-reasonable price -- the owner was
desperate -- but got greedy and lowballed the price. Someone else who
knew the market got the boat at asking price.

Desperation and impatience sometimes creates incredible deals. A
sister-ship to ours had a $3500 offer accepted (something like $3k under
asking), but the buyers backed out. Boat was in better shape than ours,
which is depressing. The engine by itself is worth that. Hell, the bare
hull is worth that, but such is the market.

Know what you really want and what you can actually use. Know the market
and values. Walk away until you "find your center" when you "have" to
have *that* boat. There is (almost) always a better boat, a better deal.

Personally, I don't even look at electronics, assuming it'll need to be
replaced within a couple of seasons.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/