rhys wrote:

A Westsail 32 or a Contessa, on the other hand, will just hit the dock
and stop. G

A Westsail will keep going, and take the dock with it!

Matt O.

There is a Freedom board on Yahoo. Try the Freedom 36 (my personal
favorite) Fast, Roomy and a ball to singlehand.

On 26 Apr 2005 15:41:00 -0700, "Frank" wrote:


wrote:
(Original poster). The Freedom has been on and off of my list. I have
read the pros and cons. They have great interiors and seem to have as
high or higher quality equipment than the Bristols and Sabres. I,
however, do worry about buying an older boat with a carbon fiber
mast.
Admittedly, I only know 'carbon fiber' as used on time trial bikes
(my
carbon fiber disc wheels crack and detach from other materials that
it
is adhered to - and it is $$$). The same may not apply to masts. On
the
other hand, any cyclist will tell you That you cannot beat carbon
fiber
for stability, weight and power transfer, so I imagine these same
features extend to sailing. I have looked at a Freedom 32. I have yet
to find the Freedom owners group that I have heard about. The Sailnet
group is dead.

When Freedom itself supported a board, it was great to go there. I,
too, know of no current Freedom ng.

IMHO, their construction/equipment/etc. is superior to most. TPI builds
great boats.

As for carbonfiber, there have been a coupla stories about mast cracks
on the earliest versions; but during the period of the boats we're
talking about (the later 32s and the 30), they're pretty damned
bulletproof.

If you've only read about 'em and never sailed one, do yourself a favor
and catch a ride on one. After you've sailed one singlehanded,
including flying a chute, you'll scoff when people talk about how easy
other boats are to sail solo. There's no contest.

My opinion and worth every penny you paid for it!

Frank

On 27 Apr 2005 04:55:23 -0700, wrote:

I have been searching under the assumption that a 30-32' J-Boat would
be a bear to single-hand, except for highly skilled/experienced
sailors, because it is built (light with substantial sail area)
principally for crewed races. Am I wrong? Thanks


They aren't all the same in such matters as sail area vs displacement.
Even with that caveat, some older racing-oriented Js are easy for two
people to sail. The J35 and J27 are examples of this. The J30 was
intended to be a family cruiser racer and is also very manageable by a
non-athletic couple.

Some of the newer Js, with asymmetreical chutes and retractable bow
sprits should be much easier to single hand, and I have seen others
doing it, but haven't tried any myself.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Curse thee, thou quadrant. No longer will I guide my earthly way by thee." Capt. Ahab

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 00:59:11 -0400, "Matt O'Toole"
wrote:

I'm also very partial to the Cal 27 II and III, which is a great sailor, and
also cheap. Same with the 34 -- which is larger but less expensive than some of
the boats mentioned. Some friends circumnavigated in one, so I trust it. If
you can find a Cal 2-30 they're a gem of a sailor and more modern looking too.
Cals aren't as fancy as some other boats, but they're well built, good sailors.

We had several good experiences with Cal 2-30s chartered from private
owners. I second the suggestion. It is much narrower than modern boats
but does indeed look modern in profile.

The Cal has a decent sized mainsail, unlike many boats built a little
later, and it can be sailed without a headsail if desired.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Curse thee, thou quadrant. No longer will I guide my earthly way by thee." Capt. Ahab

Thanks for the tip. I'll check out Yahoo!. I agree completely about the
F36, except I really like having a sugarscoop, so I'd amend that
slightly to a F38.

Frank

"Peter Bennett" wrote in message
news.com...
On 25 Apr 2005 12:48:32 -0700, wrote:

A number of months ago I began my search for a sailboat. I am an upper
Chesapeake sailor who, a few years down the road, will do some coastal
cruising. I am looking for a boat that I can sail solo (I want to sail
solo - if I wanted to hook-up with crew, I would have taken up golf),
but that can also confortably accomodate three adults for a weekend
cruise.But the principal criteria is its ease/security in solo sailing.

I single-handed a Yamaha 30 for many years - it is a fairly light
racer-cruiser (or perhaps cruiser-racer) - it performed well, and I
found it easy to handle. I don't think I'd want to go too much over
30 ft for single-handing coastal cruising (ocean cruising may be
another matter). For coastal cruising, you will frequently be raising
and lowering sails, anchoring, picking up a mooring, or docking at a
marina - all things that are harder the larger the boat.

I found the Yamaha very easy to handle, both under way and around
marinas (I had less trouble getting it into a marina slip than I do
with my present 28 ft trawler, and much, much less trouble than with a
26 ft twin stern drive planing boat I had between the Yamaha and the
trawler)

--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

We just had a scary situation with our Y30. One of our skippers was out on a
day sail, and as she came around the breakwater, a large plume of white
smoke started pouring out of the exhaust. Fortunately, she was able to get
to the dock pretty quickly. Turned out the bolts on an exhaust flange must
have vibrated loose and allowed seawater to get into the top of the engine.
Fortunately, the water just got into the head not the engine itself. A
couple of $$ and it was fixed.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:26:14 -0300, Terry Spragg
wrote:


The best way to sail "fast" is to leave the phone at home, rip out
the knotmeter, and pull all the ropes a little too tight. Fast is a
relative term. Some sail to be competetive, and some sail to get
away from it all. Just ask yourself if the seagulls worry about
going fast enough.

OK, please be aware that I understand that sailing is the worst form
of transport...excepting all the others. "Fast" in this context means
getting the best from the boat, not letting the sails flog,
maintaining a tuned rig, cleaning the bottom and neither stalling the
helm nor rounding up frequently. And completing tacks effectively.

That's "fast" by virtue of no being slow. I can sail an Alberg 30
"fast" by that measure, although it's not at this stage in GRP boat
history, a particularly fast boat.

At least, that's not why I sail. You must please youreslf.

I do. Perhaps I should have used the term "sailing to the potential of
my boat and my crew".

R.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 01:03:31 -0400, "Matt O'Toole"
wrote:

rhys wrote:

A Westsail 32 or a Contessa, on the other hand, will just hit the dock
and stop. G

A Westsail will keep going, and take the dock with it!

Matt O.

Fair enough!

R.

In article . com,
wrote:

A number of months ago I began my search for a sailboat. I am an upper
Chesapeake sailor who, a few years down the road, will do some coastal
cruising. I am looking for a boat that I can sail solo (I want to sail
solo - if I wanted to hook-up with crew, I would have taken up golf),
but that can also confortably accomodate three adults for a weekend
cruise. But the principal criteria is its ease/security in solo sailing.

Having read the other 48 messages, I think you're on the right path.

As an example of the type of boat I now consider ideal for the area and
type of sailing you're describing, see our lovely owner, Xan-a-Deux,
below. (We've sailed the area for about 20 years.)

Though my wife is almost always along, I usually single-hand. Xan's
easily capable of taking a couple down to at least the Bahamas
comfortably. (Longest cruise to date is 900 nm in 3+ weeks to Beaufort,
NC and back. Our Bahamas trip is scheduled for the next time I'm
"between jobs".)

Oh, and last year was bad for us: only 60 days on the water, we usually
get 70-80. Pat wasn't a sailor when she met me. I just made it fun for
her to be along.

The things I like about Xan are the enormous accommodations and stowage,
simplicity, toughness, and nice turn of speed -- in that order. Your
priorities may differ.

As others have mentioned, some great old boats in that size range are
going for songs. One we almost got was a Newport 27 Mk II (though I've
since heard they were a bit lightly built.) 4' draft is handy for
gunkholing, 5' a bit of a PITA for a few of our favorite anchorages.

What I suggest is to walk the docks and yards, crawl in the boats and
try them on for size, going through the motions of day-to-day
activities. [Personally, I would take the wife along to get her opinion
if you can. Otherwise, keep her in mind, as having her onboard can
enhance the experience enormously.] High on our list was a comfortable
dedicated berth (dropping the table gets old quickly), so the first
thing we did was crawl in and "sleep". That eliminated most boats,
surprisingly.

Last on our list was the undercarriage, even though I'm a go-fast kind
of guy. (we did luck out, though) Good sails can make up the difference.
I single-hand our cruising chute -- with a little help from the
autopilot and a stuffer. We sail when "faster" boats are motoring. Every
boat has handling "quirks" that have to be overcome, so I'm not sure
that fin or full keel is really that significant, though it's easier to
reduce sail that you have than add sail area you don't.

Expand your search into the various yards on the Eastern Shore, as those
boats are often more honestly priced, though not as clean. [Cleaning is
such a minor item...]

And take your time. If you really need to sail, rent for a bit.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

(initiator of thread) Again, thanks for your suggestions. I confess
that boat buying is an obsessive's dream-come-true. I fear that I've
ruined our printer printing all of the listings. Some of the boats that
I have been keeping my eye on are selling and I wish I was in a
position to act now, but I want to pay cash,so I have to wait until
late Summer/early Fall so as to avoid the lenders; perhaps necessarily
so because it is my understanding that lenders are reluctant to provide
loans for old boats. A Bristol 31.1 that I looked at and one that
looked like a good sweat equity boat has sold and another broker called
me a week ago to tell me that an offer is being made on a nicely
restored Allied Seabreeze that I looked at (not sure if this was a ploy
since I have yet to see a 'sale pending' note yet).
Should I use a buyer-broker? I can't see why a buyer-broker would be
willing to devote much attention to me, since if I buy a boat in the
25-45K range, their cut would be relatively small. I have not committed
to a broker yet and, frankly, it seems like it is much less of a hassle
to see a boat on my own, telling the seller's broker that I have nobody
representing me (more $$$ in their eyes, which is OK - we all have to
make money somehow). The boats are a hassle to get access to because
they are spread out between Annapolis and Oiental, NC. I do not want to
arrange all of these visits through a buyer-broker. It would be a
hassle for me and certainly for my broker.
Do I correctly understand how this business works? I met a guy at
Bristol Yacht, Annapolis, that I like - recommended by someone on this
forum, but he represents only one of the boats that I am interested in.
Did you use a buyer-broker? If so, did they have to coordinate the
visit with the seller-broker or be there physically when you inspected
the boat? When I asked the broker mentioned above this question I got
the sense that the the seller-broker, if he or she ended up doing the
leg work (take me to the boat, etc.), would resent it if the
buyer-broker was not present. Again, the question is, what is the
accepted protocol?
Of course my next question is, if I act on my own, is making an offer
at less than 80% of the asking price a reasonable approach, assuming
that I know what the NADA/BUC valuation is and I know the asking prices
of comparable boats of the same model? I am pricing boats based on the
assumption that I may get at least a 20% reduction off the asking
price. For example, if the asking price of a Bristol 35.5 is 60k, would
it be reasonable to assume that the boat may go for 45k. I realize that
there are many variables that influence the asking price and what the
seller may sell at.
This is a disadvantage of going it alone. I may not know what a
broker knows; what the boats have sold for (though my understanding is
that the BUC value is based on selling prices).
Let me also pose another question/issue. Florida boats are going for
much less. From this forum I have learned that there are many reasons
for this; greater wear and tear and lots of supply. But is there not
also a glut right now because of sky-rocketing insurance rates due to
recent hurricane activity? Its another incentive for Florida boat
owners to get the hell out of boating? Texas/LA boats also go for a lot
less.
I asume that it is still a buyer's market. Unlike the late 90's,
there are not a lot of people willing to undertake an expensive
discretionary purchase. Lots of the reviews and recommended purchase
prices reported in Practical Sailor and Good Old Boats are from the
late 90's when used sailboat prices actually rose. We are now in
different times.
Lots of questions and perhaps naive observatons, but this has been a
productive discussion. Again, many thanks, Brian, Havre de Grace