Roger Long wrote:
Someone, probably me, wrote:

With a 25 footer you should be very sure to have a radar and
electronic piloting gear. If your 25 footer is an outboard, you should
make your way only in settled weather with good visibility.

Nonsense! (But, like much nonsense, good advice.)

Maybe someone else knows what this means, but I don't.

Don't let lack of radar stop you. Unless you really train in how to
interpret it, it may actually distract you dangerously ...

I used to believe that sailing the Maine coast was only for the hardy and
well prepared (piloting-wise), and by and large I still do. But these days
there is _no_ excuse for laying the onus on the lobsterman and running
without radar. If a person decides to go without radar in these waters,
what he is essentially saying is: "Hey, I'm just up here to have a good
time, so please keep your eye on your radar. While you are pulling your
traps and a hundred or so other things, stare at the radar so you don't
spoil my fun, run over me and my kids, and kill me." Strangely, many
fishermen don't take kindly to this.

The original poster who is learning the "piloting ropes" to prepare for this
expedition should also take into account the possibility that laying a GPS
course to (or cleaning out the ear wax to be able to hear) a bell buoy
involves the assumption that the bell buoy is still where you think it was 2
years ago when the chart was printed. Often this is the case.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

I don't know what part of Maine you've been sailing in but radar is
hardly standard equipment up here.

I'll bet that there are far, far more radar sets though than there are
people trained enough in their use so that they could actually avoid
being hit by another vessel that wasn't keeping a visual watch. The
random way the lobsterboats loop around from trap to trap, even a
trained, full time, observer would have a hard time figuring out the
relative bearings.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:

I don't know what part of Maine you've been sailing in but radar is
hardly standard equipment up here.

I have been sailing in the part that starts at Kittery and ends near
Eastport.

Decades ago I sailed the Maine coast confident that my piloting skills,
updated charts, superior eyesight, and good hearing, plus my tremendous
good luck, would keep me out of trouble.

Recently (say in the last 8 to 10 years or so) I noticed that radar sets had
gotten got a lot cheaper, a lot easier to use, and a lot less power hungry.
I also noticed that just about every 17 foot Whaler I saw in and around
Mount Desert sported a radome. Hmmmm.

Having been using a small radar for a while now, I don't think I would be
without. Further, I no longer get really dirty looks from the professional
fishermen I sometimes bump into.

Well, not actually "bump."

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

True, however human behavior evolves for the better of worse.
Years ago I only had a compass and did the trip from Saint John to Bar
Harbor and return many time. In those days a radar cost around $5000.00 to
6000.00. People were trained to use their skills according to sound,
direction of wind, smell and many others. People on the water were on the
look out. More so they were trained to stay in port when the fog was heavy.
Today, peoples skills have changed. It became much easier to use GPS, RADAR
and other navigational aids and more people are sailing in heavy fog.
With this new breed of sailors navigating in peas soup fog you place an old
timer using only his manual skill to get home and you have an interesting
situation.
When a commercial fisherman drops his lobster cages he make sure that the
way point is recorded and programmed in the autopilot. When he comes back
to pick up the cages he sets his autopilot as per the way points. This way
only two people are required to check the cages. In practice almost no
fishermen has a vigil on the radar except to return home with his catch.
This means that at 80% of the time the fishermen will not see you while they
are picking up their cages on autopilot. As every fishermen has a license
for a well designate area they know no other fishing boat will enter their
zone. Now here come a pleasure craft entering the fishermen zone in heavy
fog without a radar. The probability that the commercial fishermen will see
you on their radar is remote.
Most claims filled with the insurance companies originate from this type of
collision.
The question is who will the insurance believe the pleasure craft that
knowingly and willingly navigated in heavy for without the proper equipment
or the commercial fishermen fully equipped with navigating in the fog?

"Armond Perretta" wrote in message
...
Roger Long wrote:
Someone, probably me, wrote:

With a 25 footer you should be very sure to have a radar and
electronic piloting gear. If your 25 footer is an outboard, you should
make your way only in settled weather with good visibility.

Nonsense! (But, like much nonsense, good advice.)

Maybe someone else knows what this means, but I don't.

Don't let lack of radar stop you. Unless you really train in how to
interpret it, it may actually distract you dangerously ...

I used to believe that sailing the Maine coast was only for the hardy and
well prepared (piloting-wise), and by and large I still do. But these
days
there is _no_ excuse for laying the onus on the lobsterman and running
without radar. If a person decides to go without radar in these waters,
what he is essentially saying is: "Hey, I'm just up here to have a good
time, so please keep your eye on your radar. While you are pulling your
traps and a hundred or so other things, stare at the radar so you don't
spoil my fun, run over me and my kids, and kill me." Strangely, many
fishermen don't take kindly to this.

The original poster who is learning the "piloting ropes" to prepare for
this
expedition should also take into account the possibility that laying a GPS
course to (or cleaning out the ear wax to be able to hear) a bell buoy
involves the assumption that the bell buoy is still where you think it was
2
years ago when the chart was printed. Often this is the case.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

I'll have to confess that you've got me thinking about something that
hadn't occurred to me. In the 15 years since I did any cruising,
cheap gadgets probably have changed the behavior of all the other
boats. The idea that these yuppies and dot-com'ers are out there
blindly following little cursors around like a video game is so
consistent with human nature as to be inevitable. I may not like this
world I'm going to find when I get back out there again in a couple
weeks.

Every vessel is required to keep a visual watch and be able to stop
and maneuver within the limits of the visibility, regardless of the
equipment on board but that's certainly right up there with observing
road speed limits. I never had a problem with a lobsterboat back in
my cruising days. They came out of the fog, waved, and disappeared.
Few had radar or autopilots at that time. I'm sure the probability
of collision is much higher now that they do.

Maybe I should have just stuck with flying.

--

Roger Long

Not sure if my last post went thru. Please forgive me if I am double
posting

Wanted to say thanks to everyone for being so helpful. You have given
us alot to think about. we have the charts and cruising guides that you
suggested. We are still in the early planing stages and will have more
questions I am sure after we do some deeper research.
PS-We launched our 25 footer today for the season and we couldn't be
happier.
If anyone has any other thoughts that would be great. thanks again
Richard