"New Conservative" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

First of all, what's a "survey" - when is it necessary and how much
does it cost?

Next: How long would it take to sail single-handedly from S/England to
the Windward Islands

Next: If one ends up in some distant safe harbor somewhere abroad;

Finally, what's the difference between a "berth" and a "cabin"?

I realize these are stupid questions, but beg your indulgence.

I fear that you are in great danger of killing yourself and your crew with
your incompetence and stupidity. This range of questions imply that you
really have not a clue. If you take any training, you will realise that the
sea is a very unforgiving environment. I strongly recommend that you start
to learn to sail not on the internet but on a boat. Go out this weekend -
take a course in a boat on the water. You are a very long way from taking a
boat on the sea let alone the ocean.

Gavin

Gavin Collinson wrote:

"If you take any training, you will realise that the
sea is a very unforgiving environment. "

I think you could argue the exact opposite. It's soft and no dangerous
in itself. You can make all sorts of mistakes in a yacht or powerboat
that would be fatal in a car or motorcycle.

Short of being tucked up in bed I think the sea is about the safest
place you can be!

"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...
Gavin Collinson wrote:

"If you take any training, you will realise that the
sea is a very unforgiving environment. "

I think you could argue the exact opposite. It's soft and no dangerous
in itself. You can make all sorts of mistakes in a yacht or powerboat
that would be fatal in a car or motorcycle.

Short of being tucked up in bed I think the sea is about the safest
place you can be!

I disagree. I am a relatively new qualified coastal skipper and I am
frequently surprised how quickly a sea will change from a benign environment
to one that is dangerous and forbidding. In my short experience, you cannot
take the sea for granted. In a car, you just pull into the next layby.

Gavin

Gavin Collinson wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message

I disagree. I am a relatively new qualified coastal skipper and I am
frequently surprised how quickly a sea will change from a benign
environment
to one that is dangerous and forbidding.

Yet you have survived! Is it a miracle or was it perhaps very safe?

In a car, you just pull into the next layby.

Well you can equally say in a boat you just pop into shelter. A car you
can die in a flash with no time to correct. In a boat you've always got
time and you have to do a lot of very stupid things to get hurt.

If you're so frightened of sailing, give up! If you've not stop trying
to make your achievments look better by pretending you overcame great
hardship!

"Dan" wrote in
oups.com:

Well you can equally say in a boat you just pop into shelter.

Hmm....let's test that theory. It goes 6-8 knots when things are going
right. We're 397 nautical miles from shore. 397 divided 7 equals 56.71
hours to the nearest point of land, not safe harbor....those rocks on the
Irish coast come to mind....so let's add a few more hours to find a harbor
entrance....say 60 hours.

60 hours?! That's 2 1/2 DAYS! WE COULD DIE IN A STORM AT SEA IN 2 1/2
DAYS!

Nope....wrong thinking. When you're "out there", even only 397 miles "out
there"....YOUR STRANDED OUT THERE!! It's FOREVER to "shelter"....in 25'
waves crashing over the broken mast stub, the mast and its sails long
gone....Not fun.

Rule 1 - It is ALWAYS better to be standing on the dock, wishing you were
at sea....than to be at sea, wishing you were on the dock!

Larry W4CSC wrote:
"Dan" wrote in
oups.com:

Well you can equally say in a boat you just pop into shelter.

Hmm....let's test that theory. It goes 6-8 knots when things are
going
right. We're 397 nautical miles from shore. 397 divided 7 equals
56.71
hours to the nearest point of land, not safe harbor....those rocks on
the
Irish coast come to mind....so let's add a few more hours to find a
harbor
entrance....say 60 hours.

60 hours?! That's 2 1/2 DAYS! WE COULD DIE IN A STORM AT SEA IN 2
1/2
DAYS!

How? You've just said we're 60 hours away from the nearest thing to
hit! Are you saying the sea state will make the boat fall apart? Are
you saying the masts gonna fall down and break a hole in the hull? How
often have either of these things happened to UKRSers?

Rule 1 - It is ALWAYS better to be standing on the dock, wishing you
were
at sea....than to be at sea, wishing you were on the dock!

But if you're going to be 60 hours off shore you're gonna have make
sure you're boat is up to anything that might come along and chance the
weather.

"Dan" wrote in
ups.com:

How? You've just said we're 60 hours away from the nearest thing to
hit! Are you saying the sea state will make the boat fall apart? Are
you saying the masts gonna fall down and break a hole in the hull? How
often have either of these things happened to UKRSers?

You really must watch "The Perfect Storm", the movie. It is a true story
and the swell reality shown pitchpoling the fishing vessel isn't just a
writer's fantasy. I could happen to YOU.


Rule 1 - It is ALWAYS better to be standing on the dock, wishing you
were
at sea....than to be at sea, wishing you were on the dock!

But if you're going to be 60 hours off shore you're gonna have make
sure you're boat is up to anything that might come along and chance the
weather.


There is no boat made that is "up to anything that might come
along".....well, less than maybe an icebreaker and that's iffy. You will
never own a boat that can survive "anything". The sea can take whatever
you buy and just turn it into rubble in a matter of minutes if it feels
like it. One of the greatest feelings of being at sea is the feeling of
total submission to the sea's will.

Wait until you've been sailing in the pitch dark for 11 hours, the sun
rises and you suddenly see some HUGE object just floating by that could
simply smash your hull to bits. I had that feeling coming up from Florida
about 180 miles off the Georgia Coast. We were eating breakfast with the
autopilot steering an Endeavour 35 sloop under sail, the radar watch set.
Just as I opened my mouth to fill it with more eggs benedict, this HUGE
CABLE REEL, made of wood and invisible to the radar, sailed by about 50
yards behind my other friend delivering the boat! It must have been 30'
diameter, 12' wide?...something like that. I went to look at it on the
radar and the 2KW Raymarine never made a blip, as it trailed away behind
us. If we'd hit that at 8 knots in the dark, it would have ripped the
Endeavour's bow clean off in the 6' swells we had the night before.

Been there, done that, had that sickening feeling, got the T-shirt.....

There's plenty to run into in the open ocean....besides those 50' waves
wiping the deck clean of sailing gear....

in message , Larry W4CSC
') wrote:

"Dan" wrote in
oups.com:

Well you can equally say in a boat you just pop into shelter.

Hmm....let's test that theory. It goes 6-8 knots when things are
going
right. We're 397 nautical miles from shore. 397 divided 7 equals
56.71 hours to the nearest point of land, not safe harbor....those
rocks on the Irish coast come to mind....so let's add a few more hours
to find a harbor entrance....say 60 hours.

60 hours?! That's 2 1/2 DAYS! WE COULD DIE IN A STORM AT SEA IN 2
1/2 DAYS!

Nope....wrong thinking. When you're "out there", even only 397 miles
"out
there"....YOUR STRANDED OUT THERE!! It's FOREVER to "shelter"....in
25' waves crashing over the broken mast stub, the mast and its sails
long gone....Not fun.

Rule 1 - It is ALWAYS better to be standing on the dock, wishing you
were at sea....than to be at sea, wishing you were on the dock!

You really know nothing about the sea, do you? If you're 397 miles west
(or north west, or south west) of Ireland you're pretty much safe in
any conditions. Just drop the para anchor over, lash everything movable
down, go to sleep, get up every four hours or so to check the warp
isn't chafing, get some more sleep. It'll be damp, noisy, and pretty
uncomfortable, but it won't be dangerous. Only continuous severe
westerly gale for sixteen consecutive days is going to give you any
worries at all, and that's pretty rare.

The 'risks' aren't, by and large, in deep water. By and large, and
excepting wave-action capsizes (which are themselves pretty rare, and
usually related to special conditions like continental shelves), you
can ride out anything if you have enough sea-room.

The risks are close to the coast. Lee shores, offshore rocks and
shallows, strong tidal currents, overfalls, these are all coastal
phenomena. They are what make sailing in bad weather dangerous. 400
miles west of Ireland, none of them exist. The old rule used to be
'when in trouble, get out to sea and stay there'.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I'll have a proper rant later, when I get the time.

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 18:59:45 -0500, Larry W4CSC
wrote:

Nope....wrong thinking. When you're "out there", even only 397 miles "out
there"....YOUR STRANDED OUT THERE!! It's FOREVER to "shelter"....in 25'
waves crashing over the broken mast stub, the mast and its sails long
gone....Not fun.

Larry, I admire your forthrightness, but now you're starting to scare
me. If sailing were like that for anything other than the odd very bad
experience, surely *no one* would go near a boat!
--

"Suffer no one to tell you what to think."
Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party.

http://www.newconservativeparty.org

In article ,
says...


On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 18:59:45 -0500, Larry W4CSC
wrote:

Nope....wrong thinking. When you're "out there", even only 397 miles "out
there"....YOUR STRANDED OUT THERE!! It's FOREVER to "shelter"....in 25'
waves crashing over the broken mast stub, the mast and its sails long
gone....Not fun.

Larry, I admire your forthrightness, but now you're starting to scare
me. If sailing were like that for anything other than the odd very bad
experience, surely *no one* would go near a boat!

Now, now. Let's not get carried away here. When the mast and rig are gone but
the keel is still there and she's buttoned up tight you will be just fine.
Knocked about a bit, but fine.

Sometimes inshore can be a lot worse than offshore. Those twelve foot or
thirty foot waves at sea usually have long periods and it's just up and down,
unless they are really bad breaking wind-driven waves. But inshore, your
twelve foot wave may well be a square wave -- 12 X 12. Not fun.

Buy or borrow a bunch of books. My wife favors those that deal with disasters.
One of them, I think the name was "Lost," dealt with yacht disasters. A fair
number could be traced to the lack of a knife at the appropriate time.

Friend of ours sailed a Triton (28 feet, I believe) from New York to the
Azores and thence the Canaries. Daughter was crew first leg. Friend was crew
second leg, which scared the bejeezus out of them. Delivery captain brought
the boat back to the States, at no small expense.