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Dumb question on single-handed long passages
Hi all,
I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. -- Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party. http://www.newconservativeparty.org |
New Conservative wrote:
Hi all, I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. One of the many rules of the sea is to maintain a proper watch 24/7. I don't know how the racer hotshots get away with it, but consider how far a freighter can travel in an hour while you're napping. Yes their supposed to maintain a proper watch also, but a little boat is hard to see (assuming their looking) and a freighter is hard to turn, and has no brakes. Solo is Ok for day sailing, but that's about it. |
Try to stay out of shipping lanes. Get a chart that shows where they are
and stay at least 20nm on either side. When your destination converses maintain a good lookout. Don't worry about Merchant Vessels in the open ocean, as they are on autopilot. Worry instead about fishing vessels a few hundred miles from shore. Regardless, the odds favor you. Worry more about semisubmerged containers along shipping routes. "New Conservative" wrote in message ... Hi all, I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. -- Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party. http://www.newconservativeparty.org |
You need crew.
That would make sailing solo around the world pretty tough. Realistically, if you don't have an autopilot I would recommend a drogue. |
How about a windvane in place of an autopilot.
"Falky foo" wrote in message m... You need crew. That would make sailing solo around the world pretty tough. Realistically, if you don't have an autopilot I would recommend a drogue. |
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:39:41 GMT, New Conservative
wrote: Hi all, I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. Consider taking at least one other person as crew. It is far too dangerous to have no one on watch. Do it safely or stay in coastal waters and day sail. The last thing anyone needs is an unmanned vessel at sea. I think the "alone" racers should be banned. And don't "drop all sail and just bob around ...". Learn how to heave-to. But even a boat that is hove-to needs a watch. |
Not sure if it's practical to set your autopilot and then set your radar to
issue an audio alarm when something comes within 10 miles or so. |
Don White wrote:
Not sure if it's practical to set your autopilot and then set your radar to issue an audio alarm when something comes within 10 miles or so. Audio alarms for radar have a tendency to sound, based on "sea - return", so many people all too often turn them off. If you plan to singlehand, add an AIS with CPA alarms. No guarantees, but coupled with radar, it might help increase your safety factor..... course, this doesn't address the surfacing sub issue....... nothing will be foolproof |
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 05:33:02 GMT, otnmbrd
wrote: nothing will be foolproof The problem with making something foolproof is that fools are so ingenious. Weebles Wobble (but they don't fall down) |
In "FMac" writes:
How about a windvane in place of an autopilot. For a small boat a windvane that is not dependent of electricity and is mure reliable than a autopilot is certainly to be recommended. Of course a good windwane costs about 10 autopilots. - Lauri Tarkkonen "Falky foo" wrote in message om... You need crew. That would make sailing solo around the world pretty tough. Realistically, if you don't have an autopilot I would recommend a drogue. |
New Conservative wrote:
Hi all, I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Is it safe - not really because of the risk of a larger vessel turning your boat into smaller pieces. I had an acquaintance who was single handing who was bashed into by a cruise ship. He swore he was just below for 15 minutes having a cup of tea and updating the chart position. Ships can come over the horizon in about 10 minutes to your position if moving at say 22 knots. They seldom keep a good lookout at sea in my experiences, and a small boats lights at night are only visible 2 miles away. At 22 knots that's a pretty short time to notice a contact and alter course for the big ship. Big ships often have their radar off during the day too. Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? Dropping sail just makes you a stationary target rather than a moving one and increases your exposure time. Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. 1. Consider taking a crew member just for the offshore passage from England to the West Indies. Crew fatigue is probably one of the biggest causes of accidents on offshore trips 2. If you're determined to do it solo, invest in a Radar with a "guard zone"; a radar detector like a CARD, and carry life insurance. Get a timer that wakes you every fifteen minutes to look around. 3. The most dangerous times are within a few hundred miles of the coast but that is probably 48 hours of sailing for a typical cruising boat so you need to be alert for that time period. That's a long time to be alert after an ocean passage. In short it's not a good idea, although people do it. Evan Gatehouse |
New Conservative wrote:
Hi all, I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Is it safe - not really because of the risk of a larger vessel turning your boat into smaller pieces. I had an acquaintance who was single handing who was bashed into by a cruise ship. He swore he was just below for 15 minutes having a cup of tea and updating the chart position. Ships can come over the horizon in about 10 minutes to your position if moving at say 22 knots. They seldom keep a good lookout at sea in my experiences, and a small boats lights at night are only visible 2 miles away. At 22 knots that's a pretty short time to notice a contact and alter course for the big ship. Big ships often have their radar off during the day too. Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? Dropping sail just makes you a stationary target rather than a moving one and increases your exposure time. Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. 1. Consider taking a crew member just for the offshore passage from England to the West Indies. Crew fatigue is probably one of the biggest causes of accidents on offshore trips 2. If you're determined to do it solo, invest in a Radar with a "guard zone"; a radar detector like a CARD, and carry life insurance. Get a timer that wakes you every fifteen minutes to look around. 3. The most dangerous times are within a few hundred miles of the coast but that is probably 48 hours of sailing for a typical cruising boat so you need to be alert for that time period. That's a long time to be alert after an ocean passage. In short it's not a good idea, although people do it. Evan Gatehouse |
in message , New
Conservative ') wrote: Hi all, I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? It's a legally dodgy area. The colregs say that you must keep an effective watch at all times, and clearly the extent to which a singlehander can do that is questionable. However, if you're sailing a small boat which is unlikely to do serious damage to anything you might be in collision with I don't see it as a morally dodgy area. Of course your own boat may sink, but that's a risk you take... in fact the sea is very large and (apart from choke points like the English Channel) the number of vessels in any given area is very small so the chances of a collision are very low. Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? There's no safety benefit from 'dropping all sail and just bobbing about'; you might as well be making way in the direction you want to go (and the movement of the boat will be more comfortable). Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. There are two strategies. One is period based alarms - when you go to sleep you set an alarm to wake you at a particular time - and the other is event based alarms. If you use a self steering gear rather than an autopilot you may use an 'off course alarm' linked to an electronic compass; you may have an alarm set to go off if windspeed exceeds a predetermined threshold; you may have a proximity alarm linked to an active radar transponder. People who race singlehanded employ both these strategies. One thing is that most successful singlehanded sailors sleep for very short periods - often only twenty or thirty minutes at a time, although ideally with many of these 'cat naps' in a twenty four hour period. You can train yourself to get used to this sort of routine before you leave (and take it from me it's horribly tough and you end up after a few weeks feeling horribly fatigued). -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ;; This email may contain confidential or otherwise privileged ;; information, though, quite frankly, if you're not the intended ;; recipient and you've got nothing better to do than read other ;; folks' emails then I'm glad to have brightened up your sad little ;; life a tiny bit. |
Evan Gatehouse wrote:
Ships can come over the horizon in about 10 minutes to your position if moving at say 22 knots. AFAIK the horizon is 22 odd miles away. A ship moving at 22kts would therefore take about an hour to get to you. |
"New Conservative" wrote in message ... Hi all, I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. -- Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party. http://www.newconservativeparty.org Is this a troll? If you've never sailed, I suggest you get some instruction and experience before ever thinking about single handing. Tat process will answer most of your questions. There is a breed of looney (I hope you are not really one of them) who has bought a boat and set off with no idea of how to sail, and they are usually the ones who end up in the newspapers or in the morgue. Learn from their mistakes, and take one step at a time. Such people are a menace, especially to the rescue services. |
Dan wrote: Evan Gatehouse wrote: Ships can come over the horizon in about 10 minutes to your position if moving at say 22 knots. AFAIK the horizon is 22 odd miles away. A ship moving at 22kts would therefore take about an hour to get to you. Sort of. A bunch of common misconceptions revolve around the "horizon". Your horizon, the water perimeter you see will be around 2-3 miles depending on your height. The ship on the other hand being much higher, and with lights high up at night, will have much longer horizon of its own. Couple those to get the distance at which you see it, and you are looking at 15+ miles. On the other hand, take one of those bloody cross channel cats at 40 Knots and it get s a bit more interesting. :) PyroJames |
The horizon depends on the height of your eye - the dipping distance
tables in the almanac give the distance off for height. You will see objects above sea level 'over the horizon' according to their height so as the ship approaches, you will see more of it. It is all in the yachtmaster shorebased course - possibly day skipper too! Nick Dan wrote: Evan Gatehouse wrote: Ships can come over the horizon in about 10 minutes to your position if moving at say 22 knots. AFAIK the horizon is 22 odd miles away. A ship moving at 22kts would therefore take about an hour to get to you. |
Nick wrote:
The horizon depends on the height of your eye - the dipping distance tables in the almanac give the distance off for height. You will see objects above sea level 'over the horizon' according to their height so as the ship approaches, you will see more of it. 70 foot high ship viewed from 3 metres high. I can't be arsed to do the maths but I bet it isn't *far* off 22 miles. What would you estimate? |
Dan wrote:
Nick wrote: The horizon depends on the height of your eye - the dipping distance tables in the almanac give the distance off for height. You will see objects above sea level 'over the horizon' according to their height so as the ship approaches, you will see more of it. 70 foot high ship viewed from 3 metres high. I can't be arsed to do the maths but I bet it isn't *far* off 22 miles. What would you estimate? Not quite that far. Dipping distance(nm) is 2.08 * SQRT(height in metres). 3 metres gives a horizon at 3.6 nm. The 21 metre ship has a dipping distance of 9.5 nm. So at 13.1 nm you will see the tops of the masts and at 3.6 nm you will see the hull down to waterline. |
Nick wrote:
Not quite that far. Dipping distance(nm) is 2.08 * SQRT(height in metres). 3 metres gives a horizon at 3.6 nm. The 21 metre ship has a dipping distance of 9.5 nm. So at 13.1 nm you will see the tops of the masts and at 3.6 nm you will see the hull down to waterline. So it aint gonna hit you in 10 mins. |
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:52:34 UTC, "Dan"
wrote: : Nick wrote: : : Not quite that far. Dipping distance(nm) is 2.08 * SQRT(height in : metres). 3 metres gives a horizon at 3.6 nm. The 21 metre ship has : a : dipping distance of 9.5 nm. So at 13.1 nm you will see the tops of : the : masts and at 3.6 nm you will see the hull down to waterline. : : So it aint gonna hit you in 10 mins. If it's a HSS it'll have time to hit you, circle the area machine-gunning survivors, nip back home and come back with a wreath in ten minutes. Ian |
Ian Johnston wrote:
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:52:34 UTC, "Dan" If it's a HSS it'll have time to hit you, circle the area machine-gunning survivors, nip back home and come back with a wreath in ten minutes. In which case keeping a watch wouldn't have done you much good anyway! |
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:00:09 UTC, "Dan"
wrote: : Ian Johnston wrote: : On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:52:34 UTC, "Dan" : : : If it's a HSS it'll have time to hit you, circle the area : machine-gunning survivors, nip back home and come back with a wreath : in ten minutes. : : In which case keeping a watch wouldn't have done you much good anyway! How long does it take to arm a Stinger missile? Ian |
Ian Johnston wrote:
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:00:09 UTC, "Dan" wrote: : Ian Johnston wrote: : On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:52:34 UTC, "Dan" : : : If it's a HSS it'll have time to hit you, circle the area : machine-gunning survivors, nip back home and come back with a wreath : in ten minutes. : : In which case keeping a watch wouldn't have done you much good anyway! How long does it take to arm a Stinger missile? LOL! Yes. A day out cruising. Pasties: Check, Suntan Cream: Check, Stinger Missile... |
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:11:57 -0000, "Duncan Heenan"
wrote: "New Conservative" wrote in message .. . Hi all, I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. -- Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party. http://www.newconservativeparty.org Is this a troll? If you've never sailed, I suggest you get some instruction and experience before ever thinking about single handing. Tat process will answer most of your questions. There is a breed of looney (I hope you are not really one of them) who has bought a boat and set off with no idea of how to sail, and they are usually the ones who end up in the newspapers or in the morgue. Learn from their mistakes, and take one step at a time. Such people are a menace, especially to the rescue services. It's okay, most of them don't have emergency locator beacons or file sail plans anyway. so that solves that issue. Darwin works ! |
New Conservative wrote:
I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Sailing alone over longer distances is not something that many people experience, so there tends to be a broad range of responses when this kind of question is asked. One thing you can be sure of is that people who sail alone will give you vastly different responses compared to those who do not. Having said that, I think you may be getting ahead of yourself. Why not give this issue some thought _after_ you have sailed for a few years and made a few coastal cruises. By then you will have made a few of the mistakes, and experienced one or two of the terrors, that we ell have, and you will be in a position to answer quite a few of your own questions. Also by then you will have gained enough experience to put forth questions that are worth spending time answering. -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/ |
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 05:33:02 GMT, otnmbrd
wrote: Don White wrote: Not sure if it's practical to set your autopilot and then set your radar to issue an audio alarm when something comes within 10 miles or so. Audio alarms for radar have a tendency to sound, based on "sea - return", so many people all too often turn them off. If you plan to singlehand, add an AIS with CPA alarms. No guarantees, but coupled with radar, it might help increase your safety factor..... course, this doesn't address the surfacing sub issue....... nothing will be foolproof The question was asked by an inexperienced sailor. There are many expensive devices available, but there is nothing like a real "24 hour watch". This skipper needs crew. Remember a few years ago when "Coyote" ran into a fishing boat off New England? That was Mike Plant, one of the most experienced single-hand racers on the seas. His boat was commissioned with the latest (and expensive) gear to make it as safe as possible. "Around the world alone" is dangerous. Even if they don't care about their own safety, they should not be endangering others. Maritime regulations are specific about a constant, 24 / 7 watch. This skipper needs crew. |
Ships can come over the horizon in about 10 minutes to your position if
moving at say 22 knots. They seldom keep a good lookout at sea in my experiences, and a small boats lights at night are only visible 2 miles away. At 22 knots that's a pretty short time to notice a contact and alter course for the big ship. Big ships often have their radar off during the day too. Let me try to clear up some serious misconceptions: First, your "visible horizon" depends on two things: height of eye and your atmospheric visibility. With a height of eye of 8 feet (rough guess of your height of eye on a small yacht) your visible horizon in clear conditions is roughly 3 miles. To calculate how far you might see a "big ship", you'd add the distance of the horizon for the ship's superstructure (say 9 miles for a 60 foot high ship). So in this case, the furthest you'd be able to see this ship is roughly 12 miles, and quite possibly alot less than that. If you don't believe me, look it up in Bowditch. Second, what speed ships operate at runs the gammut, but what I consider to be the "big guys": super containerships, tankers and cruise ships, normally run around 32-36 knots. So best case scenario: you're sailing (at 6 knots) towards a ship (steaming at 32 knots) that's on a reciprocal course, so you're closing at roughtly 42 knots. So time from first visible at 12 miles to collision is roughly 17 minutes. Remember, that's a "best case" scenario with an "alert" lookout. Third, it's been my experience (30+ years at sea) that almost every merchant vessel at sea maintains a -very good- watch and lookout. There are exceptions though, and a few particular flags (China and N. Korea come to mind) have a reputation for not responding to hails. It's been my experience, both as an officer in the merchant marines and a fellow cruiser, that it's our fellow cruising community that most frequently fails to maintain a proper lookout. The problem for merchant ships is that small sailing vessels are just hard to see. VERY hard to see. They usually present a poor RADAR target and have dim or no navigation lights. Fourth, by law all ocean going merchant ships are required to be fitted with and operate their RADARs. If a ship has a RADAR failure, they are required by law to head directly to port and not get underway until it's been fixed (there's more to it than this over simplification, but I'll spare you the details). I know of no ship's master that would risk his/her license and livelyhood by allowing their RADARs to be secured while operating at sea. Your comment to the contrary is complete nonsense. On the otherhand, I'd bet at least 90% of the cruising yachts out there (based on what I've seen) only use their RADAR in fog, and rarely in open ocean. Over the years I've met a great number of cruisers that: - all hands sleep below at night, no lookouts at night; - turn off navigation lights at night to "conserve power"; - never operate their RADAR, except near shore in fog; - never monitor VHF hailing frequencies; - have little or no knowledge of the Nautical Rules of the Road. .... all very "unseamanlike" and fool-hardy practices IMHO. -- =-------------------------------------------------= Renewontime A FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners http://www.renewontime.com =-------------------------------------------------= |
So best case scenario: you're sailing (at 6 knots) towards a ship
(steaming at 32 knots) that's on a reciprocal course, so you're closing at roughtly 42 knots. OOPS, I mean't to use a ship at 36 knots in this example. -- =-------------------------------------------------= Renewontime A FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners http://www.renewontime.com =-------------------------------------------------= |
"New Conservative" wrote in message ... Hi all, I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, No. or is this a no-no? Yes. Can it be done safely No. or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? No difference. Might as well keep moving while awaiting to be run down while sleeping. Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. Singlehanders do it all the time. Yes, it is dangerous but is just a risk you accept when singlehanding on long passages. Good Luck! Doug Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party. http://www.newconservativeparty.org |
Hopefully this post is a joke.
If you haven't sailed before, then simply forget any attempt to sail such a distance single-handed. Only when you really know what you are doing should you consider it. Any attempt to do so when inexperienced, and you deserve everything you (will certainly) get. Chrisssss..... "New Conservative" wrote in message ... Hi all, I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. -- Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party. http://www.newconservativeparty.org |
Skipper wrote:
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 05:33:02 GMT, otnmbrd wrote: Don White wrote: Not sure if it's practical to set your autopilot and then set your radar to issue an audio alarm when something comes within 10 miles or so. Audio alarms for radar have a tendency to sound, based on "sea - return", so many people all too often turn them off. If you plan to singlehand, add an AIS with CPA alarms. No guarantees, but coupled with radar, it might help increase your safety factor..... course, this doesn't address the surfacing sub issue....... nothing will be foolproof The question was asked by an inexperienced sailor. There are many expensive devices available, but there is nothing like a real "24 hour watch". This skipper needs crew. Remember a few years ago when "Coyote" ran into a fishing boat off New England? That was Mike Plant, one of the most experienced single-hand racers on the seas. His boat was commissioned with the latest (and expensive) gear to make it as safe as possible. "Around the world alone" is dangerous. Even if they don't care about their own safety, they should not be endangering others. Maritime regulations are specific about a constant, 24 / 7 watch. This skipper needs crew. My response was mainly directed at the post regarding radar alarms. Although I strongly disagree with "single handing", especially on long trips, obviously, experienced or inexperienced, people are going to do it and they need to be made aware of the plusses and minuses of any equipment they may incorporate to assist. In the case of radar alarms, they are by no means perfect and neither is AIS, but they both can be useful. otn |
in message ,
Chrisssssss................ ') wrote: Hopefully this post is a joke. If you haven't sailed before, then simply forget any attempt to sail such a distance single-handed. Only when you really know what you are doing should you consider it. Any attempt to do so when inexperienced, and you deserve everything you (will certainly) get. Errrmmmm... I suspect this guy is a fantasist. However, several now-well-respected long distance sailors set out on their first long singlehanded passages with little or no sailing experience. Sir Chay Blyth comes to mind. And everyone involved in short-handed passage making once did their first short-handed passage. Sailing is not desperately difficult, and these days navigation is not desperately difficult either. If ten beginners in ten reasonably sound boats set out to cross the Atlantic, I'd estimate that four would make it, five would give up because it was too tough for them (but would get safely back into shelter without much help) and one would either kill him (or her) self or cause massive problems for the search and rescue services (or, of course, both). It would be extremely irresponsible to advise a total beginner to 'just go for it', of course. But it isn't _that_ dangerous, either. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a world where people were prevented from undertaking significant personal risks and challenges. -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ;; "If I were a Microsoft Public Relations person, I would probably ;; be sobbing on a desk right now" -- Rob Miller, editor, /. |
otnmbrd wrote:
snip course, this doesn't address the surfacing sub issue....... Nor does being awake and looking, when it comes from underneath... Andy. |
renewontime dot com wrote: snip Second, what speed ships operate at runs the gammut, but what I consider to be the "big guys": super containerships, tankers and cruise ships, normally run around 32-36 knots. Really? I just did a quick google, and apparently QM2 is "The Fastest current ocean Liner apart from QE2 (approx 30 knots vs. 32.5 knots )" so which particular cruise ships (etc) do you have in mind? Andy |
Andy Champ wrote:
renewontime dot com wrote: snip Second, what speed ships operate at runs the gammut, but what I consider to be the "big guys": super containerships, tankers and cruise ships, normally run around 32-36 knots. Really? I just did a quick google, and apparently QM2 is "The Fastest current ocean Liner apart from QE2 (approx 30 knots vs. 32.5 knots )" so which particular cruise ships (etc) do you have in mind? Andy G I say his speed were a bit high. I'd give average speed range between 14-20, with all tankers falling in the middle to lower part of that range and some of the others capable to @26-28K, and always the exceptional few in the low to mid 30's. BTW Merchant ships don't have to head to the nearest port when a radar goes down, but must report it prior to arrival at the next port and repair before departing .... at least, in the US. otn |
On 1 Mar 2005 01:24:24 -0800, "Dan"
wrote: AFAIK the horizon is 22 odd miles away. A ship moving at 22kts would therefore take about an hour to get to you. ========================================= That's way optimistic, even for a good radar. Good sized boats disappear from view on my flybridge at around 8 miles, small boats at 2 to 4 miles. |
renewontime dot com wrote:
Let me try to clear up some serious misconceptions: First, your "visible horizon" depends on two things: height of eye and your atmospheric visibility. With a height of eye of 8 feet (rough guess of your height of eye on a small yacht) your visible horizon in clear conditions is roughly 3 miles. To calculate how far you might see a "big ship", you'd add the distance of the horizon for the ship's superstructure (say 9 miles for a 60 foot high ship). So in this case, the furthest you'd be able to see this ship is roughly 12 miles, and quite possibly alot less than that. If you don't believe me, look it up in Bowditch. I figure that most cruising sailboats, even those keeping a good lookout won't spot a white superstructure at 9 miles but will probably spot a hull at 5 or so miles. I agree that atmospheric haze often limits visibility *even* if you don't notice it. Second, what speed ships operate at runs the gammut, but what I consider to be the "big guys": super containerships, tankers and cruise ships, normally run around 32-36 knots. Nobody in the commercial fleet runs at 32-36 knots, especially not tankers! The very fastest container ships and LNG carriers are around 25-27 knots. Cruise ships are slower, around 22-23 knots top speed and most tankers are slower still. The exception would have to be the SL-7 Fast Sealift ships which did 33 knots on trials. Third, it's been my experience (30+ years at sea) that almost every merchant vessel at sea maintains a -very good- watch and lookout. There Not in my experience. I've often called up passing merchant vessels at sea on VHF 16 and it usually takes several calls for about 10 minutes before _some_ will reply. I've asked how my visibility on radar is and got the reply: "let me warm it up....". The problem for merchant ships is that small sailing vessels are just hard to see. VERY hard to see. They usually present a poor RADAR target and have dim or no navigation lights. Agreed. We're small targets. Fourth, by law all ocean going merchant ships are required to be fitted with and operate their RADARs. If a ship has a RADAR failure, they are required by law to head directly to port and not get underway until it's been fixed (there's more to it than this over simplification, but I'll spare you the details). I know of no ship's master that would risk his/her license and livelyhood by allowing their RADARs to be secured while operating at sea. Your comment to the contrary is complete nonsense. See my post above. I think a lot of flag of convenience ships don't have their radar on all the time, probably to save the cost of replacing the magnetron. But I think we agree that cruising sailboats are small, hard to see targets, that large vessels are often not seen until they are within a few miles of you, and that everybody should keep a good lookout. Having said all that, I don't think single handed sailboats pose much of a risk to anybody, with the exception of fast racing yachts (wouldn't want to be hit by B&Q at 30 knots) :) Evan |
New Conservative wrote in message . ..
Hi all, I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the subject. Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day, even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself' while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Can it be done safely or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a while until I've awoken? Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks. I suggest you read the book 'Desperate Voyage' by John Caldwell and then ponder whether you want to leave this life early. (He did exactly what you are proposing) Regards Wali |
In rec.boats.cruising renewontime dot com wrote:
The problem for merchant ships is that small sailing vessels are just hard to see. VERY hard to see. They usually present a poor RADAR target and have dim or no navigation lights. Could you tell us what is a sufficient RADAR target? I found an old article: http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Stud...eflector_2.htm according to which my Mobri "does not perform well". They say that in my area many commercial ships from a certain country do not really keep RADAR watch, only listen to a possible radar warning while reading magazines and having tea. Does that seem possible? Where would you like the yachts to have their navigation lights? Masthead or deck level? Masthead is seen from further away, but misleads with regard to distance. Dag Stenberg |
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