Ian Johnston wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 20:51:50 UTC, Andy Champ wrote:

: I don't know about you lot, but if I was doing 40kts in the Irish Sea
: 24/7/365 *I'd* want some blody good radar too. Just think "Lost
: Container"...

Are containers a real threat? They keep getting mentioned, but I
haven't yet seen any account of anyone actually hitting one ... and
I've seen claims that, not being airtight, they generally sink very
quickly. Anyone ever seen one washed up on the beach?

Ian


I've never seen one on a beach - but first, it's take quite a wave to
put one up there, and second, someone would be sure to slavage it!

I also hate to mention her name in view of recent controversy, but it
appears Dame Ellen had a run-in with one last time around:

http://www.vendeeglobe.org/uk/magazine/604.html

Andy.

renewontime dot com wrote:
Are containers a real threat?

We hit something about
mid-ocean on a trip from San Diego to Hilo back in 2000, damaging our

rudder. Not sure what it was, as we never saw it. Could have been a

container.

I've never seen (nor hit) a container at sea, but I have hit a whale
near the Channel Islands (off Southern California coast). The whale
was big enough to completely stop the boat's momentum while under
sail. My guess is that we hit it with the keel, but we were very
lucky it wasn't the rudder.

dudley
..

Nikki Locke wrote in
:

A ship has three square rigged masts. I thought everyone knew that!


Hmm...that's odd. I was aboard SeaLand "Performance", about 950' long.
They kept calling it a "ship", but I didn't see any masts except the stick
on the bow holding up the flag....about half a mile from the master's
stateroom...(c;

She's an "inboard". 38,800 HP at 102 RPM. Great for trolling after
getting her up to speed for a few miles!

Don't ask what "mileage" she gets. They only laugh at you...(c;

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 16:40:38 -1000, renewontime dot com
wrote:

Generally speaking though, a cell phone is better than nothing at all,
but has several shortcomings for emergency communications, in
particular:

Of course. Digital is only about 1.5 miles range, IMO.

the CG cannot take RDF bearings of your signal, so no
position can be found from your signal alone.

I am in more trouble than a cell phone can solve if I can't provide a
bearing, a lat/lon or a range.Even from the log and estimating a DR
pos based on course and time since last plot.

Even if the boat's hit by lightning and immediately sinks, I have a
handheld VHF and GPS in a sealed "go" box, and even a pelorus. So I
suppose if I get hit by lightning in the fog and am knocked out until
the water lapping over the coamings wakes me up.

That might be bad.

There have been several
cases of sailors and fishermen here (Hawaiian Islands) who have run into
trouble, had only enough power or signal for a brief call on their cell
phone to the USCG, but the CG was unable to assist. Because the CG
wasn't able to take bearings of the signal, no position or even rough
idea of the distress caller's position was known, so CG assets weren't
deployed.

A marine VHF would have probably been better, but is still limited to
line-of-sight distances (which because the CG antennas are on top of
mountains equates to about 24 - 30 miles). In these particular
situations a 406 EPRIB would have been many times more effective in
summoning help.

Offshore (as in "out of sight of"), or in busy sea traffic, fishing
fleet areas, I would definitely consider it, if only because it goes
off if you are bobbing in the water unconscious.

Good argument for an automaitc PFD, too, but I have the manual and my
wife has the dual man/auto SOSpender models.

R.

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 20:37:06 +0000, Andy Champ
wrote:

I also hate to mention her name in view of recent controversy, but it
appears Dame Ellen had a run-in with one last time around:

What recent controversy? Last I had heard, she'd broken the solo
non-stop record.

R.

rhys wrote:
On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 20:37:06 +0000, Andy Champ
wrote:


I also hate to mention her name in view of recent controversy, but it
appears Dame Ellen had a run-in with one last time around:


What recent controversy? Last I had heard, she'd broken the solo
non-stop record.

R.


She has. That hasn't stopped people slagging her off!

Andy.

"rhys" wrote in message
...
Even if the boat's hit by lightning and immediately sinks, I have a
handheld VHF and GPS in a sealed "go" box, and even a pelorus.

Do you think they will still be working after a lightening strike - unless
of course they're in a sealed metal "go" box?

Graham.

How about if you wrapped them in tinfoil before packing them in box?
Seriously would that adequately shield them from stray rf? Kirk.


"Graham Frankland" gdfltdatnospamglobalnet.co.uk wrote in
:

"rhys" wrote in message
...
Even if the boat's hit by lightning and immediately sinks, I have a
handheld VHF and GPS in a sealed "go" box, and even a pelorus.

Do you think they will still be working after a lightening strike -
unless of course they're in a sealed metal "go" box?

Graham.

"Kirk Robertson" wrote in message
...
How about if you wrapped them in tinfoil before packing them in box?
Seriously would that adequately shield them from stray rf? Kirk.

Don't know what the minimum thickness of material needs to be to form a
Faraday cage. At the first sign of lightening, our EPIRB & handheld VHF go
into the oven - and no you can't light it without first opening the door!

Graham.

This thread now illustrates the dangers of cross posting, especially to an
American NG.

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 23:50:01 -0000, "Graham Frankland"
gdfltdatnospamglobalnet.co.uk wrote:

"rhys" wrote in message
.. .
Even if the boat's hit by lightning and immediately sinks, I have a
handheld VHF and GPS in a sealed "go" box, and even a pelorus.

Do you think they will still be working after a lightening strike - unless
of course they're in a sealed metal "go" box?

Of course!

R.

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 10:04:46 -0000, "Duncan Heenan"
wrote:

This thread now illustrates the dangers of cross posting, especially to an
American NG.

I'm Canadian and hold a British passport. So what's the debate about
Ellen's win? I haven't heard anything since she finished.

R.

rhys wrote:
wrote:

This thread now illustrates the dangers of cross posting, especially to an
American NG.

I'm Canadian and hold a British passport. So what's the debate about
Ellen's win? I haven't heard anything since she finished.

It's not a widespread controversy, or even a controversy at all really.
A few regulars on UKRS[1] have been conducting a long-drawn-out argument
about something to do with Ellen. I'm not sure what the exact premise
is; "the exact degree of impressiveness of her feat" seems to about
cover it. Just newsgroup blather - ignore it.

Pete

[1] Including one who freely admits that his main reason for posting to
Usenet is to antagonize people.[2]
[2] But we love him really.

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 23:22:02 +0000, Pete Verdon
d wrote:

rhys wrote:
wrote:

This thread now illustrates the dangers of cross posting, especially to an
American NG.

I'm Canadian and hold a British passport. So what's the debate about
Ellen's win? I haven't heard anything since she finished.

It's not a widespread controversy, or even a controversy at all really.
A few regulars on UKRS[1] have been conducting a long-drawn-out argument
about something to do with Ellen. I'm not sure what the exact premise
is; "the exact degree of impressiveness of her feat" seems to about
cover it. Just newsgroup blather - ignore it.

I will. Half the people here couldn't sail 500 miles, never mind
35,000, singlehanded in a 60 foot tri. The other 50% will admit they
can't.

Her feat remains impressive. She's under 30 and five foot two. Most
circumnavigators are older (more experienced), bigger and stronger.

R.

A quick rule of thumb if I remember correctly is to take the distance they
have traveled in 3 minutes and drop two zeros and that is the ship speed.
For instance if the ship travels 1000 yards in three minutes they are going
10 Kts. On the radar you really need to do something when the contact has a
steady bearing and decreasing range. You are on a collision course,
regardless of how it looks to your eye.

Scott
"Karl Denninger" wrote in message
news:8vkWd.37539$755.36432@lakeread05...

In article ,
renewontime dot com wrote:


Fascinating. I'd like to learn more - can you point me at any web
sites? I can't find anything much over 25kts.

Our site has a news section, or try
http://www.marinelink.com/main/main.asp but I did a quick search on the
net and didn't find much. Better to get a subscription to "Maritime
Reporter" and "MarineNews", in the current issues there are several
articles about "high speed" vessels.

The only ships around here that run 30+ knots are the ones that are
painted
gray and have assorted pointy things sticking out from various parts of
their
superstructure.

Oh yeah, if you approach at a closing rate which they determine to be
potentially hostile, they will use the pointy things.

That will definitely ruin your day.

When I'm offshore my radar is up and operating. That's the best
visibility
enhancer that I've got.

I can see SHIPS out 8-10nm or so (visually) on a clear day/night, and on
radar quite a bit further. Land disappears 10ish nm around here, in no
small part due to the elevation of some of the buildings (which helps)

Small boats are usually not visible to the naked eye much beyond 4nm or
so,
although I will often tag them on radar significantly before that.

All this from my flybridge.

--
--
Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights
Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:46:24 -0500, rhys wrote:

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 23:22:02 +0000, Pete Verdon
wrote:

rhys wrote:
wrote:

This thread now illustrates the dangers of cross posting, especially to an
American NG.

I'm Canadian and hold a British passport. So what's the debate about
Ellen's win? I haven't heard anything since she finished.

It's not a widespread controversy, or even a controversy at all really.
A few regulars on UKRS[1] have been conducting a long-drawn-out argument
about something to do with Ellen. I'm not sure what the exact premise
is; "the exact degree of impressiveness of her feat" seems to about
cover it. Just newsgroup blather - ignore it.

I will. Half the people here couldn't sail 500 miles, never mind
35,000, singlehanded in a 60 foot tri. The other 50% will admit they
can't.

Her feat remains impressive. She's under 30 and five foot two. Most
circumnavigators are older (more experienced), bigger and stronger.

I fall in the first 50%. I might make 500 miles with nice weather.
35000 I wouldn't even start.

I suspect the problem is that she is popular in France as well as the
UK.

I thought she should have been knighted after fixing the main in a
knockdown on the Volvo 60. I still don't see what took them so long.



R.

Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

For your upscale SUV: Dingle-balls hand knit of natural Icelandic yarn

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 23:54:16 -0500, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:


I fall in the first 50%. I might make 500 miles with nice weather.
35000 I wouldn't even start.

I would, if I could take five years and drop anchor about a hundred
times G. Oh, and I'd need rum for the captain's medicine chest.
Gosling's, preferably.

I suspect the problem is that she is popular in France as well as the
UK.

Well, I carry a British passport, so I feel qualified in saying that
is pig-ignorant. The French may have a number of easily identified
shortcomings, but they (or at least the Bretons!) are the world's
finest sailors and certainly are the nation that backs sport sailing
and participates in it to a higher degree than any other nation. I
would put the Australians/New Zealanders after the French and the
British after that. The U.S. and Canada are perhaps in the lower end
of the top ten, as I don't count the "billionaire's club" as being
representative of a thriving sailing culture so much as a plutocratic
culture that includes sailing as a way to spend millions of dollars on
"technical" races like America's Cup....the equivalent of breeding
horses to win 100 metre races, in my opinion.

I thought she should have been knighted after fixing the main in a
knockdown on the Volvo 60. I still don't see what took them so long.

She is in the same class as Yves Parlier (who cooked himself a new
spar on some desolate beach in the south Pacific) and Derek Hatfield,
who was dismasted off Argentina in an Open 40 in the last Five Oceans,
fixed the damage and *still* got a 3rd place finish despite having the
smallest and cheapest boat in his class.

Endurance is one thing, skill is another. But the pure mental grit and
determination and sheer resourcefulness shown over weeks of hardship
is what distinguishes solo distance sailing from every other sport, in
my opinion.

R.

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:21:23 GMT, WaIIy
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:34:17 -0500, rhys wrote:

he U.S. and Canada are perhaps in the lower end
of the top ten, as I don't count the "billionaire's club" as being
representative of a thriving sailing culture so much as a plutocratic
culture that includes sailing as a way to spend millions of dollars on
"technical" races like America's Cup....the equivalent of breeding
horses to win 100 metre races, in my opinion.

America bad.

What a surprise.

Grow up, you whimpering pussy. I wasn't attacking America so much as
the America's Cup, and high-end, only the rich need apply races of
that ilk.

The America's Cup is named after a boat from the 19th century and has
zip to do with America. That Cup, which is run in almost comically
over-designed and frequently weak boats, has been held by non-U.S.
teams for the last 20 years, and it is European or multi-national
corporations that pay for the boats...unless you're Larry Ellison, who
is a good sailor, but not good enough to drive an America's Cup glass
canoe.

WaIIy wrote:
America bad.

What a surprise.


rhys wrote:
Grow up, you whimpering pussy. I wasn't attacking America so much as
the America's Cup, and high-end, only the rich need apply races of
that ilk.


If "rec.boats.cruising" isn't to become the moronic slag-fest that
"rec.boats" is now, people need to ignore the right-wingnuts like WaIIy.
They're not going to post like responsible, intelligent adults, so the
rest of us have to.

Actually, WaIIy has posted on-topic a number of times, he's not the
worst of the crowd. I am saying to ignore only his political rantings.


The America's Cup is named after a boat from the 19th century and has
zip to do with America. That Cup, which is run in almost comically
over-designed and frequently weak boats, has been held by non-U.S.
teams for the last 20 years

Whoa right there. You apparently know not of which you speak. The
America's Cup was won by New Zealand in 1995 over the US.

You have a right to express your opinions about America's Cup boats, but
please let's stick to facts of history.

DSK

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:46:22 UTC, DSK wrote:

The America's Cup is named after a boat from the 19th century and has
zip to do with America. That Cup, which is run in almost comically
over-designed and frequently weak boats, has been held by non-U.S.
teams for the last 20 years

Whoa right there. You apparently know not of which you speak. The
America's Cup was won by New Zealand in 1995 over the US.

You have a right to express your opinions about America's Cup boats, but
please let's stick to facts of history.

Pot, Kettle, Black
Australia II, 1983 or 4, ring any bells?

Chris


--

Chris Lasdauskas wrote:

The America's Cup is named after a boat from the 19th century and has
zip to do with America. That Cup, which is run in almost comically
over-designed and frequently weak boats, has been held by non-U.S.
teams for the last 20 years

Whoa right there. You apparently know not of which you speak. The
America's Cup was won by New Zealand in 1995 over the US.

You have a right to express your opinions about America's Cup boats, but
please let's stick to facts of history.


Pot, Kettle, Black
Australia II, 1983 or 4, ring any bells?

Ah, Chris, before you do the "pot, kettle, black" nonsense it would be
wise to actually look at the facts. While its true the Australia II
took the Cup in '83, it was won back in '87 by Stars and Stripes, and
successfully defended twice, in '88 an '92. The claim that the cup
"has been held by non-US teams for the last 20 years" is clearly
false, since the US held it for 8 years of the last 20.

On 3 Apr 2005 15:24:25 +0700, "Chris Lasdauskas"
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:46:22 UTC, DSK wrote:

The America's Cup is named after a boat from the 19th century and has
zip to do with America. That Cup, which is run in almost comically
over-designed and frequently weak boats, has been held by non-U.S.
teams for the last 20 years

Whoa right there. You apparently know not of which you speak. The
America's Cup was won by New Zealand in 1995 over the US.

You have a right to express your opinions about America's Cup boats, but
please let's stick to facts of history.

Pot, Kettle, Black
Australia II, 1983 or 4, ring any bells?

Exactly. Apparently, I do know.

R.

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:21:03 -0400, Jeff
wrote:

Chris Lasdauskas wrote:

The America's Cup is named after a boat from the 19th century and has
zip to do with America. That Cup, which is run in almost comically
over-designed and frequently weak boats, has been held by non-U.S.
teams for the last 20 years

Whoa right there. You apparently know not of which you speak. The
America's Cup was won by New Zealand in 1995 over the US.

You have a right to express your opinions about America's Cup boats, but
please let's stick to facts of history.


Pot, Kettle, Black
Australia II, 1983 or 4, ring any bells?

Ah, Chris, before you do the "pot, kettle, black" nonsense it would be
wise to actually look at the facts. While its true the Australia II
took the Cup in '83, it was won back in '87 by Stars and Stripes, and
successfully defended twice, in '88 an '92. The claim that the cup
"has been held by non-US teams for the last 20 years" is clearly
false, since the US held it for 8 years of the last 20.

That's why I did not say "exclusively", as the last 20 years represent
a change from the previous 130 years, during which the AC was held
exclusively by U.S. sailing teams and vessels.

But as I see now how the comment was read, we can skip further debate,
right?

My original point was how events like the America's Cup require
somewhat distorted scantlings (to say the least) in order to be
competitive *in that type of race*. If your boat can fold in half if
the wind hits 18 knots, I would submit it's a bit of a specialty race.
I've seen Optis out in 18 knots, for god's sake.

R.

dudley wrote:

renewontime dot com wrote:

Are containers a real threat?

We hit something about
mid-ocean on a trip from San Diego to Hilo back in 2000, damaging our


rudder. Not sure what it was, as we never saw it. Could have been a


container.


I've never seen (nor hit) a container at sea, but I have hit a whale
near the Channel Islands (off Southern California coast). The whale
was big enough to completely stop the boat's momentum while under
sail. My guess is that we hit it with the keel, but we were very
lucky it wasn't the rudder.

dudley
.

It would have been luck only if the designer had put the rudder at
the front.

Are you sure you hit the whale, or was it the other way around?

Terry K

Have a friend who is single handing at this moment to New Zealand from
Port Angeles Washington (he left in May). Anyhow, he has hit both whales
(bent the rudder) and sunken container (nice dent in bow) in his many years
in his homebuilt 32' steel hull.
Gordon
BTW this is Edwards 4th or 5th round trip. Oh, did I mention he is 79 yrs
old?
Gordon


"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...
dudley wrote:

renewontime dot com wrote:

Are containers a real threat?

We hit something about
mid-ocean on a trip from San Diego to Hilo back in 2000, damaging our


rudder. Not sure what it was, as we never saw it. Could have been a


container.


I've never seen (nor hit) a container at sea, but I have hit a whale
near the Channel Islands (off Southern California coast). The whale
was big enough to completely stop the boat's momentum while under
sail. My guess is that we hit it with the keel, but we were very
lucky it wasn't the rudder.

dudley
.

It would have been luck only if the designer had put the rudder at
the front.

Are you sure you hit the whale, or was it the other way around?

Terry K

In message , Gordon
writes
Have a friend who is single handing at this moment to New Zealand from
Port Angeles Washington (he left in May). Anyhow, he has hit both whales
(bent the rudder) and sunken container (nice dent in bow) in his many years
in his homebuilt 32' steel hull.
Gordon
BTW this is Edwards 4th or 5th round trip. Oh, did I mention he is 79 yrs
old?

Respect.
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd