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Andy Champ wrote:
renewontime dot com wrote: snip I didn't mean to imply that -all- big ships operate at speeds over 30 knots, I was trying to make a point in reply to the original posters question and some of the misconceived replies, ie. "at least an hour will pass from when I see a contact on the horizon to when it will hit me". My point is that ships at sea operate at a wide variety of speeds, even in excess of 30+ knots, and as a cruiser you need to be aware of this. As for "high speed" ships out there, I think you guys are off on this. All the newer ships are being built to operate at 30 knots or greater. There are a number of "fast" container and oil carrier ships in the works, and shipbuilders are starting to deliver "fast" ferries that will operate at 40+ knots. And it won't stop there, I've read that the designers have plans for ships that will operate at 50 to 60 knots. Fascinating. I'd like to learn more - can you point me at any web sites? I can't find anything much over 25kts. fast = expensive, expensive means no go in commercial shipping unless the cargo is very very time sensitive, so that's all bulk and refrigerated and container loads out, you're pretty much down to passenger stuff and short run stuff like ferries. http://www.nassco.com/cdc/csp.html oh yes, don't forget the military, they can go very very fast, but they get a bollocking for the fuel consumed so need special permission, eg war footing. -- Lithium ion internal and external batteries. Internal from £30 External from £75 (trade) All batteries factory new and guaranteed. http://www.surfbaud.co.uk/ e-mail (www.rot13.com) |
Fascinating. I'd like to learn more - can you point me at any web
sites? I can't find anything much over 25kts. Our site has a news section, or try http://www.marinelink.com/main/main.asp but I did a quick search on the net and didn't find much. Better to get a subscription to "Maritime Reporter" and "MarineNews", in the current issues there are several articles about "high speed" vessels. -- =-------------------------------------------------= Renewontime A FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners http://www.renewontime.com =-------------------------------------------------= |
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 17:08:21 GMT, otnmbrd
wrote: A great secondary ID method for sailboats at night is lighting up your sails with a flashlight, etc.. Generally this will give a brighter target without destroying visibility of your running lights. Here's how I "get attention" on Lake Ontario if I see I am closing with a lake freighter at night. 1) Running lights are always on at dusk. 2) Mast top trilight is on, too, although I am only obliged to have one or the other. 3) If under power or motorsailing, I have the steaming light on at the spreaders. 4) If I detect no change, I will hail the ship on 16. If no response, I will hail them on 13, which is sometimes monitored more closely in my area. If I get a response, I will give my position in lat/lon and my bearing to them, my speed and my suggested reciprocal bearing (Uh, on the port quarter and closing, Skipper...that's me!) 5) I will shine a million candela spot on my sail if sailing or down my deck if under jib alone and/or under power. I will flick my anchor light. I will fire a bloody flare at them, duck their stern and report them to the Coast Guard, giving time, lat/lon and other details. Only some of the above have ever been necessary, but I have gotten to within two NM before being seen on light air nights with a full moon, and have not shown well on their radars...basically, I had to give them a vector to follow to see me. None of the above would be possible were I below not keeping a watch. "They can't see you" is my default assumption. COLREGS might help my widow get a better settlement, but I will get out of the way of shipping unless I have positive proof they've seen ME. It does give me a huge appreciation for WWII destroyers that sank surfaced U-boats at a couple of thousand yards at night in the Atlantic. The conning tower of a U-boat is a much worse target than a white decked sailboat. |
rhys wrote:
1) Running lights are always on at dusk. 2) Mast top trilight is on, too, although I am only obliged to have one or the other. Required to have one *or* the other, as far as I know, as otherwise you'd be showing the lights of some other type of vessel. In practice, though, I'm sure anyone watching would be able to tell the difference between you and a fishing boat/dredger/pilot boat or whatever. Pete |
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 21:58:42 +0000, Andy Champ
wrote: renewontime dot com wrote: snip I didn't mean to imply that -all- big ships operate at speeds over 30 knots, I was trying to make a point in reply to the original posters question and some of the misconceived replies, ie. "at least an hour will pass from when I see a contact on the horizon to when it will hit me". My point is that ships at sea operate at a wide variety of speeds, even in excess of 30+ knots, and as a cruiser you need to be aware of this. As for "high speed" ships out there, I think you guys are off on this. All the newer ships are being built to operate at 30 knots or greater. There are a number of "fast" container and oil carrier ships in the works, and shipbuilders are starting to deliver "fast" ferries that will operate at 40+ knots. And it won't stop there, I've read that the designers have plans for ships that will operate at 50 to 60 knots. Fascinating. I'd like to learn more - can you point me at any web sites? I can't find anything much over 25kts. Lok up the Cat Ferry between Maine and Nova Scotia. It has a web site with schedules. Thanks Andy. Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a Ask not with whom the buck stops . . . |
rhys wrote:
Here's how I "get attention" on Lake Ontario if I see I am closing with a lake freighter at night. 1) Running lights are always on at dusk. 2) Mast top trilight is on, too, although I am only obliged to have one or the other. I don't want to be a hard case on this, but the fact is that you are required to have one _or_ the other, and there is no room for experimentation. We have had discussions here in the past about this type of thing. I call it "improvisational lighting" and I don't see any difference between making up the lighting rules as one goes along, and making up the crossing or overtaking rules as one goes along. This kind of thing is largely why most commercial operators have such low opinions of recreational sailors. -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/ |
Armond Perretta wrote:
We have had discussions here in the past about this type of thing. I call it "improvisational lighting" and I don't see any difference between making up the lighting rules as one goes along, and making up the crossing or overtaking rules as one goes along. This kind of thing is largely why most commercial operators have such low opinions of recreational sailors. This has always interested me. Clearly the rules state that you should *only* show the correct lights. However If I really thought that showing incorrect lights was the *only* way to be seen I'd do it like a shot. I'd much rather confuse a ship than scrape his barnacles off with my flesh. Whether or not there could ever be such a case I don't know. |
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:44:07 -0500, rhys wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 17:08:21 GMT, otnmbrd wrote: A great secondary ID method for sailboats at night is lighting up your sails with a flashlight, etc.. Generally this will give a brighter target without destroying visibility of your running lights. Here's how I "get attention" on Lake Ontario if I see I am closing with a lake freighter at night. 1) Running lights are always on at dusk. 2) Mast top trilight is on, too, although I am only obliged to have one or the other. 3) If under power or motorsailing, I have the steaming light on at the spreaders. 4) If I detect no change, I will hail the ship on 16. If no response, I will hail them on 13, which is sometimes monitored more closely in my area. If I get a response, I will give my position in lat/lon and my bearing to them, my speed and my suggested reciprocal bearing (Uh, on the port quarter and closing, Skipper...that's me!) 5) I will shine a million candela spot on my sail if sailing or down my deck if under jib alone and/or under power. I will flick my anchor light. I will fire a bloody flare at them, duck their stern and report them to the Coast Guard, giving time, lat/lon and other details. Only some of the above have ever been necessary, but I have gotten to within two NM before being seen on light air nights with a full moon, and have not shown well on their radars...basically, I had to give them a vector to follow to see me. None of the above would be possible were I below not keeping a watch. "They can't see you" is my default assumption. COLREGS might help my widow get a better settlement, but I will get out of the way of shipping unless I have positive proof they've seen ME. It does give me a huge appreciation for WWII destroyers that sank surfaced U-boats at a couple of thousand yards at night in the Atlantic. The conning tower of a U-boat is a much worse target than a white decked sailboat. Rhys, Why on earth do you bother with all that? I too, sail Lake Ontario, out of Port Credit. I merely follow two basic rules of my own, one is, "Might is right" and the other is, "Don't play with the big boys." This applies both by day and night. Procedure is simple, identify lake freighter, not too difficult, determine course of lake freighter, again, not too difficult, and, if necessary, adjust my own course to take me astern of lake freighter. I don't really care whether or not they see me, if I can see them, I'll stay out of their way. The crews of the lake freighters are, after all, making their living by sailing that ship, I on the other hand, am merely playing around. Also, my vessel is far more maneuverable than theirs, so it's easier for me to take avoiding action. I agree whole-heartedly that keeping the proper watch is of prime importance, the absence of such watch keeping could be fatal. Destroyers, frigates and corvettes that protected the convoys, always fired star-shells first to illuminate the target. To hit a U-boat whether by day or night was a matter of superb gunnery plus an inordinate amount of luck. The main purpose was to drive them back into the depths where they could do little harm, slow them down and go in for a depth-charge attack to keep them down. On the radar that was in use then, a steel sub would show up much more clearly than any sail-boat, with or without radar reflector. Jan "If you can't take a joke,you shouldn't have joined" |
I don't want to be a hard case on this, but the fact is that you are
required to have one _or_ the other, and there is no room for experimentation. Armond is exactly right on this, I'm sure most folks have seen any number of -wrong- navigation light combinations/setups. The potential problem (besides a citation from the CG) is that your lights may very well be misinterpreted or misunderstood and an even more dangerous situation may result. On a personal side, it shows the whole sailing community just how unprofessional and lubberly you are. Just don't do it. There are many alternatives for greater nightime visibility, including: 1. Use bigger and/or brighter navigation lights. The guidelines in COLREGS indicate the -minimum- range of visibility, there is no maximum. 2. Mount your lights higher soas to increase the likelyhood of being seen at further distances. 3. Have a spotlight at the ready, and shine it on your sails when you see ships in the distance. 4. Have white parachute flares at the ready, (white flares are used to indicate risk of collision). 5. Do NOT use a "mast head strobe light" at sea, this is an International distress signal. 6. Use a big masthead "tri-light" if your yacht's size allows it. 7. Use the "red over green" additional lights on your mast (see COLREGS for restrictions on their use). And by all means, stand an around the clock, seamanlike watch, including: 1. Have at least one lookout posted at all times. 2. Have binoculars handy to identify contacts and their light configurations. 3. Learn how to determine CPA (Closest Point of Approach) by visual bearings alone (see Bowditch and/or Chapmans). 4. Learn and know the Nautical Rules of the Road. 5. Have your VHF radio on and monitoring channels 16 and 13. If your VHF is DSC capable, make sure it's installed properly and learn how to use it. (BTW, VHF DSC -may- be your single best way to get a ship's attention in the event of a potential collision.) 6. If your yacht is fitted with one, have your RADAR on and learn how to determine CPA, contact course/speed, and course to avoid. If your yacht doesn't have RADAR, you should seriously consider getting one. And one last thing: NEVER leave port without a 406 EPIRB, and test it monthly. If you and your yacht are not prepared to do these, then you are not ready or fit to go to sea. -- =-------------------------------------------------= Renewontime A FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners http://www.renewontime.com =-------------------------------------------------= |
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