"Armond Perretta" wrote in message news:

Well, I won't defend a statement I never made. Still, I wonder how much
difference it makes to the target whether he or she is killed by a "ferry"
or a "ship" (ignoring for the moment that many folks cannot accurately
define "ship.")

Oops, did I get the wrong writer?


I can tell you from my own experience that contacting and staying
out of the way of commercial vessels, no matter what their type or
classification, is not at all simple. What it boils down to, it seems to
me, is that the small boat operator should get out of the way and worry
later about the effectiveness of lights, communication devices, warning
systems, etc. In the interim, one should treat the rules as just what
they
a rules.

It's not easy from either perspective.
The one bit of good news is that under most cases, a large ship or G
smaller ferry will tend to be on a set and predictable route (exceptions
noted) so that you will at least have a reasonable idea of where from, where
to, and possible points of intended course change when estimating how a
particular sighting may affect your course.
On the other hand, in coastal waters where you run into a good deal of small
boat traffic, from the ship point of view, it's all too frequently difficult
to tell from,to, course change points, for small vessels which adds a great
point of concern when calculating options.
G Personally, I liked the old submarine rule, that made them stay clear of
all ship traffic when surfaced, due to their visibility ....... might be
great for big ship, small boat meeting situations, though it'd open a "can
of worms" in other respects.

otn

Steve Firth wrote:

Sensayuma is not a small town in Arizona.

Steve, please forgive me. I was indeed being a **** and missing the
point, all at once.

DannyBoy wrote:
I was indeed being a ****

funny how some slang just doesn't translate well across the pond

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=****

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 02:45:36 +0000, Pete Verdon
d wrote:


Required to have one *or* the other, as far as I know, as otherwise
you'd be showing the lights of some other type of vessel.

Correct. The hull lights are for boats like mine, or for entering
harbours because they are more visible, being low, than from out in
the lake against town lights.

In practice,
though, I'm sure anyone watching would be able to tell the difference
between you and a fishing boat/dredger/pilot boat or whatever.

It's primarily large lake freighters, power boats, other sailboats,
and jet skis around here. A small amount of police/Coasties, military
and the odd dredger or barge under tow, but not usually at night. My
main concern here in Toronto are charter "party boats" and lake
frieghters under way: the first are frequently driven by idiots and
have morons as passengers, and the second can't turn or react quickly
enough to give way to me if I don't make myself absolutely visible to
them. On an overnight lake crossing, it can be an issue, although the
middle of the lake is usually dark enough so that a good trilight
stands out well.

There is still commercial fishing on Erie and the Upper Lakes, but
not, I think, in Lake Ontario, although it's clean enough to swim in
off the boat in most places and at most times.

R.

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 09:19:10 -0500, "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

I don't want to be a hard case on this, but the fact is that you are
required to have one _or_ the other, and there is no room for
experimentation.

I agree and in reviewing my post, I misspoke what I actually do.

Perhaps I should have said "running (hull) lights are always on at
dusk". I switch on the trilight when I see circumstances merit it
(i.e. away from the harbour and into the dark lake). Then I SWITCH OFF
the running lights, leaving the mast-top trilight alone if under sail,
and the steaming light plus trilight if motor-sailing.

If sails are down and I am under power only, I will typically use
running lights and steaming light, with the trilight OFF.

I trust this clears things up, as I have no desire to resemble a
Christmas tree in word or deed. My CPS membership would be revoked.

The rotating disco ball and lasers I save for the dock.

R.

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:09:16 -1000, renewontime dot com
wrote:

And one last thing: NEVER leave port without a 406 EPIRB, and test it
monthly.

If you and your yacht are not prepared to do these, then you are not
ready or fit to go to sea.

I agree with everything you said (pretty easy as we're not talking
politics, guns or the mental state of some posters), but in my "inland
waters" case of Lake Ontario, I consider a 406 EPIRB overkill.

A Danbuoy-style MOB pole, a MOB button on an always-on GPS, a handheld
and a nav station VHF monitoring 9, 13 and 16 (as you've indicated),
wearing PFDs at helm and on deck, jacklines, lifelines, flares both
handheld and gun, a "crash box" with spare flares, GPS and handheld
and the fact I frequently tow a RIB while on passage is, I think,
enough.

And let's not forget that 50% of the time I can whip out the cell
phone and dial 911. G

Were I to go offshore or even out of sight of land in ocean water or
in fresh with few shore resources, like Lake Superior, I would sing a
different tune.

R.

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 11:15:16 -0500, Jan
wrote:

Rhys,
Why on earth do you bother with all that?

It's good practice for me as I plan on sailing a lot more in the
future than I do now.

I too, sail Lake Ontario, out of Port
Credit. I merely follow two basic rules of my own, one is, "Might is right" and
the other is, "Don't play with the big boys." This applies both by day and
night.

True, but I also race sailboats, and we are sticklers for rules G.


Procedure is simple, identify lake freighter, not too difficult, determine
course of lake freighter, again, not too difficult, and, if necessary, adjust my
own course to take me astern of lake freighter. I don't really care whether or
not they see me, if I can see them, I'll stay out of their way.

They should stay used to looking for you. That's *their* job, as well.
What if you are becalmed, engine dead, and adrift? Maybe your
electrics are shorted out, maybe you've been hit by lightning or are
taking on water. If they aren't habitually keeping a watch for "small
stuff", you are in even greater danger. The responsibility cuts two
ways.

The crews of
the lake freighters are, after all, making their living by sailing that ship, I
on the other hand, am merely playing around. Also, my vessel is far more
maneuverable than theirs, so it's easier for me to take avoiding action.

True also. Lake frieghter don't tend toward "sudden moves". 150-foot
"disco boats" can and do, and they are making a living, too, and are
obliged to observe the same rules as me.

R.

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 17:53:41 GMT, New Conservative
wrote:

Your New Conservative website isn't working well with the Firefox
browser, by the way. It just produces a bunch of source code.

R.

otnmbrd wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote in message news:

I can tell you from my own experience that contacting and staying
out of the way of commercial vessels, no matter what their type or
classification, is not at all simple. What it boils down to, it
seems to me, is that the small boat operator should get out of the
way and worry later about the effectiveness of lights,
communication devices, warning systems, etc ...

The one bit of good news is that under most cases, a large ship or
G smaller ferry will tend to be on a set and predictable route
(exceptions noted) so that you will at least have a reasonable idea
of where from, where to, and possible points of intended course
change when estimating how a particular sighting may affect your
course ...

There seem to be large numbers of small boat operators who actually believe
that commercial vessels will, in the general case, take action to avoid
small boats. Although few commercial vessels will intentionally neglect
taking appropriate action, it is indeed foolish to assume that the onus is
on the commercial vessel.

At the same time I have on several occasions encountered commercial vessels
inshore who "wandered" in the same way that pleasure boaters are wont to do
(as you mentioned above). Chief among these are commercial fishermen of
course, but I recall several cases where large cruise ships, evidently
engaged in casino-related activities, seemed to be chasing me all over the
place no matter how much I tried to pass by or avoid getting too close.
This is something one encounters quite a bit in south Florida, but the same
thing has happened to me in the Boston entrance lanes and off Halifax NS.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Sandy Morton wrote:

In article t,
otnmbrd wrote:

Wrong. SOME ferries have Voight Schneider, not most, and it's by NO
means a high speed drive, although it will increase maneuverability.

TTBOMK all CalMac RO-RO ferries have VS propulsion units and they
have a lot of ferries.

"The Earth belongs unto the Lord, and all that it contains,
except the Western Isles, for they are all MacBraynes"

rgds, Alan
--
99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 81 Guzzi Monza, 74 MV Agusta 350
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI# 7.067 DoD#1930 PGP Key 0xBDED56C5