Hopefully this post is a joke.

If you haven't sailed before, then simply forget any attempt to sail such a
distance single-handed.
Only when you really know what you are doing should you consider it.
Any attempt to do so when inexperienced, and you deserve everything you
(will certainly) get.

Chrisssss.....




"New Conservative" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am
therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the
subject.
Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say
Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day,
even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself'
while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Can it be done safely
or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a
while until I've awoken? Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if
I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks.
--

Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party.

http://www.newconservativeparty.org

Skipper wrote:
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 05:33:02 GMT, otnmbrd
wrote:


Don White wrote:

Not sure if it's practical to set your autopilot and then set your radar to
issue an audio alarm when something comes within 10 miles or so.



Audio alarms for radar have a tendency to sound, based on "sea -
return", so many people all too often turn them off.
If you plan to singlehand, add an AIS with CPA alarms. No guarantees,
but coupled with radar, it might help increase your safety factor.....
course, this doesn't address the surfacing sub issue.......

nothing will be foolproof


The question was asked by an inexperienced sailor. There are many
expensive devices available, but there is nothing like a real "24 hour
watch". This skipper needs crew.

Remember a few years ago when "Coyote" ran into a fishing boat off
New England? That was Mike Plant, one of the most experienced
single-hand racers on the seas. His boat was commissioned with the
latest (and expensive) gear to make it as safe as possible.

"Around the world alone" is dangerous. Even if they don't care
about their own safety, they should not be endangering others.
Maritime regulations are specific about a constant, 24 / 7 watch.

This skipper needs crew.

My response was mainly directed at the post regarding radar alarms.
Although I strongly disagree with "single handing", especially on long
trips, obviously, experienced or inexperienced, people are going to do
it and they need to be made aware of the plusses and minuses of any
equipment they may incorporate to assist.
In the case of radar alarms, they are by no means perfect and neither is
AIS, but they both can be useful.

otn

in message ,
Chrisssssss................ ')
wrote:

Hopefully this post is a joke.

If you haven't sailed before, then simply forget any attempt to sail
such a distance single-handed.
Only when you really know what you are doing should you consider it.
Any attempt to do so when inexperienced, and you deserve everything
you (will certainly) get.

Errrmmmm...

I suspect this guy is a fantasist.

However, several now-well-respected long distance sailors set out on
their first long singlehanded passages with little or no sailing
experience. Sir Chay Blyth comes to mind. And everyone involved in
short-handed passage making once did their first short-handed passage.
Sailing is not desperately difficult, and these days navigation is not
desperately difficult either.

If ten beginners in ten reasonably sound boats set out to cross the
Atlantic, I'd estimate that four would make it, five would give up
because it was too tough for them (but would get safely back into
shelter without much help) and one would either kill him (or her) self
or cause massive problems for the search and rescue services (or, of
course, both).

It would be extremely irresponsible to advise a total beginner to 'just
go for it', of course. But it isn't _that_ dangerous, either. I
certainly wouldn't want to live in a world where people were prevented
from undertaking significant personal risks and challenges.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; "If I were a Microsoft Public Relations person, I would probably
;; be sobbing on a desk right now" -- Rob Miller, editor, /.

otnmbrd wrote:
snip
course, this doesn't address the surfacing sub issue.......

Nor does being awake and looking, when it comes from underneath...

Andy.

renewontime dot com wrote:
snip
Second, what speed ships operate at runs the gammut, but what I consider
to be the "big guys": super containerships, tankers and cruise ships,
normally run around 32-36 knots.


Really? I just did a quick google, and apparently QM2 is "The Fastest
current ocean Liner apart from QE2 (approx 30 knots vs. 32.5 knots )" so
which particular cruise ships (etc) do you have in mind?

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:

renewontime dot com wrote:

snip
Second, what speed ships operate at runs the gammut, but what I
consider to be the "big guys": super containerships, tankers and
cruise ships, normally run around 32-36 knots.


Really? I just did a quick google, and apparently QM2 is "The Fastest
current ocean Liner apart from QE2 (approx 30 knots vs. 32.5 knots )" so
which particular cruise ships (etc) do you have in mind?

Andy


G I say his speed were a bit high.
I'd give average speed range between 14-20, with all tankers falling in
the middle to lower part of that range and some of the others capable to
@26-28K, and always the exceptional few in the low to mid 30's.

BTW Merchant ships don't have to head to the nearest port when a radar
goes down, but must report it prior to arrival at the next port and
repair before departing .... at least, in the US.

otn

On 1 Mar 2005 01:24:24 -0800, "Dan"
wrote:

AFAIK the horizon is 22 odd miles away. A ship moving at 22kts would
therefore take about an hour to get to you.

=========================================

That's way optimistic, even for a good radar. Good sized boats
disappear from view on my flybridge at around 8 miles, small boats at
2 to 4 miles.

renewontime dot com wrote:

Let me try to clear up some serious misconceptions:

First, your "visible horizon" depends on two things: height of eye and
your atmospheric visibility. With a height of eye of 8 feet (rough
guess of your height of eye on a small yacht) your visible horizon in
clear conditions is roughly 3 miles. To calculate how far you might see
a "big ship", you'd add the distance of the horizon for the ship's
superstructure (say 9 miles for a 60 foot high ship). So in this case,
the furthest you'd be able to see this ship is roughly 12 miles, and
quite possibly alot less than that. If you don't believe me, look it up
in Bowditch.

I figure that most cruising sailboats, even those keeping a good
lookout won't spot a white superstructure at 9 miles but will probably
spot a hull at 5 or so miles.

I agree that atmospheric haze often limits visibility *even* if you
don't notice it.

Second, what speed ships operate at runs the gammut, but what I consider
to be the "big guys": super containerships, tankers and cruise ships,
normally run around 32-36 knots.

Nobody in the commercial fleet runs at 32-36 knots, especially not
tankers! The very fastest container ships and LNG carriers are
around 25-27 knots. Cruise ships are slower, around 22-23 knots top
speed and most tankers are slower still. The exception would have to
be the SL-7 Fast Sealift ships which did 33 knots on trials.

Third, it's been my experience (30+ years at sea) that almost every
merchant vessel at sea maintains a -very good- watch and lookout. There

Not in my experience. I've often called up passing merchant vessels
at sea on VHF 16 and it usually takes several calls for about 10
minutes before _some_ will reply. I've asked how my visibility on
radar is and got the reply: "let me warm it up....".

The problem for merchant ships is that small sailing vessels are just
hard to see. VERY hard to see. They usually present a poor RADAR
target and have dim or no navigation lights.

Agreed. We're small targets.

Fourth, by law all ocean going merchant ships are required to be
fitted
with and operate their RADARs. If a ship has a RADAR failure, they are
required by law to head directly to port and not get underway until it's
been fixed (there's more to it than this over simplification, but I'll
spare you the details). I know of no ship's master that would risk
his/her license and livelyhood by allowing their RADARs to be secured
while operating at sea. Your comment to the contrary is complete nonsense.

See my post above. I think a lot of flag of convenience ships don't
have their radar on all the time, probably to save the cost of
replacing the magnetron.

But I think we agree that cruising sailboats are small, hard to see
targets, that large vessels are often not seen until they are within a
few miles of you, and that everybody should keep a good lookout.

Having said all that, I don't think single handed sailboats pose much
of a risk to anybody, with the exception of fast racing yachts
(wouldn't want to be hit by B&Q at 30 knots) :)

Evan

New Conservative wrote in message . ..
Hi all,

I haven't actually sailed a boat yet but plan to later this year. I am
therefore still a bit green when it comes to the intricacies of the
subject.
Say I'm keen to visit the West Indies and I'm leaving from say
Southampton, England. I'm on my own and will need to sleep every day,
even if only for a few hours. Is it safe to let a boat 'sail herself'
while I catch some shut-eye, or is this a no-no? Can it be done safely
or would I have to drop all sail and just bob around in the dark for a
while until I've awoken? Obviously it'd make for a shorter passage if
I could somehow keep going 24/7. And ideas? Thanks.

I suggest you read the book 'Desperate Voyage' by John Caldwell and
then ponder whether you want to leave this life early. (He did exactly
what you are proposing)

Regards

Wali

In rec.boats.cruising renewontime dot com wrote:
The problem for merchant ships is that small sailing vessels are just
hard to see. VERY hard to see. They usually present a poor RADAR
target and have dim or no navigation lights.

Could you tell us what is a sufficient RADAR target?
I found an old article:
http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Stud...eflector_2.htm
according to which my Mobri "does not perform well".

They say that in my area many commercial ships from a certain country do
not really keep RADAR watch, only listen to a possible radar warning
while reading magazines and having tea. Does that seem possible?

Where would you like the yachts to have their navigation lights?
Masthead or deck level? Masthead is seen from further away, but misleads
with regard to distance.

Dag Stenberg