Hi.

I am in the process of refitting a 1968 Columbia 28 for extensive
coastal cruising. I've been researching/reading posts in this
newsgroup about heads but frankly, even after my research I'm undecided
about how to proceed. The only thing about which I am certain is that
I want to completely refit with new.

She is a small sv for cruising so space is at a premium. Based on that
factor, after reading prior discussions I have considered a portable
(self-contained) head with pumpout fitting. OTOH, I do want a quality
installation. I want reliability. I want sanitary. I want low
maintenance and ease/simplicity of maintenance.

On several occasions Peggie has prompted a writer to simply name
his/her vessel. As I said, mine is a '68 C-28. A suggestion as to the
best head refit for her would be highly appreciated!

Thanks in advance to all who write.

wrote:
Hi.

I am in the process of refitting a 1968 Columbia 28 for extensive
coastal cruising. I've been researching/reading posts in this
newsgroup about heads but frankly, even after my research I'm undecided
about how to proceed. The only thing about which I am certain is that
I want to completely refit with new.

She is a small sv for cruising so space is at a premium. Based on that
factor, after reading prior discussions I have considered a portable
(self-contained) head with pumpout fitting. OTOH, I do want a quality
installation. I want reliability. I want sanitary. I want low
maintenance and ease/simplicity of maintenance.

On several occasions Peggie has prompted a writer to simply name
his/her vessel. As I said, mine is a '68 C-28. A suggestion as to the
best head refit for her would be highly appreciated!

I need a little more information than that. How many people typically
aboard? Adults, or children too? You said "extensive coastal
cruising"...does that mean you'll rarely if ever be offshore at least 3
miles? If you will be offshore, do you want the ability to flush
directly overboard at sea? How long at a time do you expect to be
anchored/moored in one place--days/weeks...or only overnights?

All of these things factor into the best system for a given boat and her
owners.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1

Wow! Thanks, Peggie, for your quick attention/response to my question.

Typically, two adults aboard. Although there will be guests, it will
not be the norm. There will be passages, and yes, I would like the
ability to flush directly overboard at sea. Knowing my propensity to
put my feet up and just sit back and enjoy the world I should prepare
for extended stays in an anchorage. That said, I don't mind a trip
offshore or to a marina once in a while. Frankly, with the size of the
vessel I'm afraid to try to build too much storage capacity into the
head system. I just don't foresee having the equipment and stores for
two people stuffed into a 28 footer to last for several weeks of
independent anchoring.

Can you refer me to a prior post of yours in which you discuss
appropriate head storage capacity?

Thanks!

Peggie Hall wrote:
wrote:
Hi.

I am in the process of refitting a 1968 Columbia 28 for extensive
coastal cruising. I've been researching/reading posts in this
newsgroup about heads but frankly, even after my research I'm
undecided
about how to proceed. The only thing about which I am certain is
that
I want to completely refit with new.

She is a small sv for cruising so space is at a premium. Based on
that
factor, after reading prior discussions I have considered a
portable
(self-contained) head with pumpout fitting. OTOH, I do want a
quality
installation. I want reliability. I want sanitary. I want low
maintenance and ease/simplicity of maintenance.

On several occasions Peggie has prompted a writer to simply name
his/her vessel. As I said, mine is a '68 C-28. A suggestion as to
the
best head refit for her would be highly appreciated!

I need a little more information than that. How many people typically

aboard? Adults, or children too? You said "extensive coastal
cruising"...does that mean you'll rarely if ever be offshore at least
3
miles? If you will be offshore, do you want the ability to flush
directly overboard at sea? How long at a time do you expect to be
anchored/moored in one place--days/weeks...or only overnights?

All of these things factor into the best system for a given boat and
her
owners.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems
and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"

http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1

wrote:
Typically, two adults aboard. Although there will be guests, it will
not be the norm. There will be passages, and yes, I would like the
ability to flush directly overboard at sea. Knowing my propensity to
put my feet up and just sit back and enjoy the world I should
prepare for extended stays in an anchorage. That said, I don't mind
a trip offshore or to a marina once in a while. Frankly, with the
size of the vessel I'm afraid to try to build too much storage
capacity into the head system. I just don't foresee having the
equipment and stores for two people stuffed into a 28 footer to last
for several weeks of independent anchoring.

Woohoo...at last! Someone who isn't asking what size tank he needs to
install to last 4 people at least a month! (The answer to that one:
300 gallons.) Hokay...here's what I recommend for you and your boat:

Since you want the ability to flush directly overboard at sea, I would
not go with a self-contained system...there's no way to bypass the tank
to flush directly overboard. So I think your best bet is a
straightforward manual marine toilet and holding tank with y-valve that
offers a choice of flushing directly overboard or into the tank.

Toilet: either a Lavac manual or a Raritan PH II.

Tank: 20-25 gallons...best source: Ronco Plastics
(http://www.ronco-plastics.com) They make top quality plastics tank for
a very reasonable price and have over 400 shapes and sizes to choose
from--more than 100 of which are non-rectangular. And they install
fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they
make the tank.

Hose: AVS96 (http://www.aussieglobe.com/avs96.htm) Proven in independent
testing to be at least 16x more resistant to odor permeation than any
other hose on the planet...$5/ft cut to any length direct from the mfr.
Btw, this is the same hose that SeaLand distributed exclusively in the
US for several years as their brand name "OdorSafe." Since being bought
out by Dometic SeaLand hose is now made by an Italian mfr, and the
Australians are now selling their hose here themselves.

Y-valve and manual overboard discharge pump: Whale.

Can you refer me to a prior post of yours in which you discuss
appropriate head storage capacity?

Easier to just tell you here than hunting it down: the average adult
uses the toilet 5x/day...average flush: .5 gal. So each person
continuously aboard will put 2.5 gal/day into a tank. A 25 gal.
tank--which is about the max size that makes sense for a 28'
boat--should last 2 people 5 days of continous use inside the "3 mile
limit."

Which is why, if it were my boat, and my budget could stand it, I'd
install a Lectra/San (CG certified Type I MSD that treats each flush and
discharges it overboard legally--and without harm to the environment).
The power consumption--1.7 ah/flush--sounds scary, but actual daily
consumption for two people is only 10-12 ah/day...not much at all. That
would allow you to install a much smaller tank (10-12 gallons) that
you'd only use if/when you were to visit one of the few "no discharge"
harbors on either coast...and there aren't many--only a few small ones
on the whole east coast between RI and the FL Keys...only one--also very
small--north of Santa Barbara on the whole west coast...and only
two--the Keys and Destin Harbor--in whole Gulf. That makes the discharge
of treated waste legal in about 90% of US coastal waters...so why store
waste aboard and have to deal with pumpouts or going offshore if you
don't have to?

For installation specifics, I suggest you check out the link in my
signature...and of course, I'm always glad to answer any questions.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:36:23 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

only
two--the Keys and Destin Harbor--in whole Gulf. That makes the discharge
of treated waste legal in about 90% of US coastal waters.

==============================================

Peggy, stop me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the
entire state of Florida was a "no discharge" area.

Wayne.B wrote:
Peggy, stop me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the
entire state of Florida was a "no discharge" area.

All the INLAND waters of FL are "no discharge," but the only coastal
NDZs are the Keys and Destin Harbor. However, that doesn't mean there
aren't some ND marinas...'cuz marinas, even though they're located in
"public waterways" are private leased private property and can make
their own rules.

Several coastal FL municipalities have attempted to just arbitrarily
declare their local waters ND and have announced that only boats with
holding tanks will be allowed...only to find out they can't do that
(they're NOT so quick to announce that, though)...only the feds (EPA)
can. That doesn't mean those municipalities won't eventually succeed in
completing the process necessary to get the feds to do it...but as of
now, the discharge of treated waste from a CG certified Type I or II MSD
is legal in all FL *coastal waters" except the Keys and Destin Harbor.

I think a lot of boat owners confuse "can't flush the toilet directly
overboard or dump a tank here" with "no discharge" because they either
aren't aware that treatment devices even exist, or think that treatment
devices are so large and expensive that only very large yachts could
have them...they think a holding tank is the only option, which in their
minds equates to "no discharge." But although the discharge of raw
waste is illegal is ALL U.S. waters, the discharge of treated waste is
legal in all waters except those specifically desginated as "no
discharge." And btw, only the discharge from a CG certified Type I or
II is considered "treated"...there's nothing that can be added to a tank
that will make it legal to dump it in any waters within 3 miles of the
nearest point on the whole US coastline.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 05:07:03 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

only the discharge from a CG certified Type I or
II is considered "treated"...there's nothing that can be added to a tank
that will make it legal to dump it in any waters within 3 miles of the
nearest point on the whole US coastline.

==================================

Are you familiar with the "Galley Maid" treatment system used on Grand
Banks trawlers in the early 80s? I'm curious to know whether it is
Type I, Type II or not at all. If so, is any maintenance required to
keep it legal?

Wayne.B wrote:
Are you familiar with the "Galley Maid" treatment system used on
Grand Banks trawlers in the early 80s? I'm curious to know whether
it is Type I, Type II or not at all. If so, is any maintenance
required to keep it legal?

Galley Maid makes both Type I (legal on boats 66') and Type II (for use
on boats 66'+) systems....so unless your boat is over 66', I suspect
it's a Type I...and if it dates from the '80s, I suspect it's one
designed to be an add on to a holding tank--a batch processor that
includes a pump to pull waste out of the tank into the treatment system.
When it's off, waste is held in the tank for pumpout, dumping at sea,
or later treatment and discharge when back in waters where the discharge
of treated waste is legal...so it's a legal system in ALL waters.

Their website http://www.galleymaid.com/sanitation.htm doesn't provide
much info about it, but does have contact information...I suggest you
call 'em for a manual and the answers to any other questions including
sources for the chemicals certified for use in it.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1