Bruce in Alaska wrote:
I NEVER travel without a firearm, period. ...

Stay away from Sweden then.

Dag Stenberg

Leanne wrote:
I don't carry a gun on me or my boat, but guns on boats

discussions

should be made with a bit of discretion.


We just went through this discussion a bit ago on alt.rv. Should
we or should we not carry firearms in our RV. I wonder how many
gun owners have killed with their weapon. It takes a lot of
nerve to actually do it. Talking is easy.

Leanne


Of the 30,000 gun deaths in the in 2002, only 300 were "legal
interventions." I would guess most of these were professionals (police,
etc.). Over 750 were accidental. About 12000 were homicides and more
than half were suicide. Over 600 were 14 years of age or under.

Its pretty clear that if a gun is fired and kills someone, its far more
likely that the victim will be a family member, friend, or child, than
than a criminal.

Of course, these stats don't tell us how many crimes were prevented by
the threat of a gun. In some neighborhoods, and for some businesses,
this is clearly a factor, but for the average family, I think a gun is a
liability.

http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:43:51 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:

Leanne wrote:
I don't carry a gun on me or my boat, but guns on boats

discussions

should be made with a bit of discretion.


We just went through this discussion a bit ago on alt.rv. Should
we or should we not carry firearms in our RV. I wonder how many
gun owners have killed with their weapon. It takes a lot of
nerve to actually do it. Talking is easy.

Leanne


Of the 30,000 gun deaths in the in 2002, only 300 were "legal
interventions." I would guess most of these were professionals (police,
etc.). Over 750 were accidental. About 12000 were homicides and more
than half were suicide. Over 600 were 14 years of age or under.

Its pretty clear that if a gun is fired and kills someone, its far more
likely that the victim will be a family member, friend, or child, than
than a criminal.

Of course, these stats don't tell us how many crimes were prevented by
the threat of a gun. In some neighborhoods, and for some businesses,
this is clearly a factor, but for the average family, I think a gun is a
liability.

http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

back in the 80's, a suburb of Chicago, Morton Grove, outlawed handgun
ownership. In response to this, a suburb of Atlanta, Kennesaw, passed
a law requiring gun ownership. In the 2 decades since this happened,
Morton Grove has maintained the rate of increase in violent crime of
any Chicago suburbs. At the same time, Kennesaw has had the lowest
rate of property and personal crime and violence. The only 2 handgun
murders in Kennesaw were at hotels there, not in homes in the
community.

Think about it. If you are a criminal, are you going to go to the one
community where everyone is required to have a gun or the one where
nobody is allowed to have one.

The problem with gun control is that its only obeyed by the law
abiding. Criminals are generally unaffected.

Weebles Wobble
(but they don't fall down)

On 18 Feb 2005 20:31:53 GMT, "Dag Stenberg"
wrote:

wrote:
My point is, most of the time, presence of a gun stops most threats.
For this same reason, I keep a pump shotgun in the bedroom. Even in
the dark, bad guys know the sound of a 12 gauge being racked.

As I have heard, this usually results in a family member getting shot.
Like your daughter who has had a bad dream and tries to get comfort from
her parents.

Dag Stenberg

No daughters sleeping in my house. If you are moving in my house at
night, you are a legitimate target.


Weebles Wobble
(but they don't fall down)

"Doug Dotson" wrote...
"Bil Hansen" wrote ...
"Doug Dotson" wrote ...
"Dan Best" wrote ...
You know, it's funny. This question comes up all the time on the
net,
but
rarely, if ever, out here where people are actually doing it (we are
about
to leave La Paz for points south). I can't remember the last time
the
guns topic came up while talking with other cruisers. The sense I
get
is
that very few are actually carrying guns.
- Dan

Very few admit it. While cruising a couple of years ago, I was amazed
how many carried guns aboard. Probably better than 50% of the folks
I talked to about such things.

And those who don't admit it (to foreign govts) can get in trouble. See
the
recent case in Indonesia
(http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...2/s1306001.htm):

"A Bali court has sentenced Western Australian millionaire yachtsman
Christopher Packer to three months jail for firearms offences.

snip

"The judges found him guilty of the non-criminal offence of failing to
report the presence of firearms on his ship and sentenced him to three
months in prison, including time already served."

Choosing to carry firearms in coutries where they are illagal is another
matter. Anyone that gets caught deserves what they get.


The point of the Packer case is that Packer failed to report the presence of
firearms (ie the case was not about the legality of firearms in Indonesia).
And two of his crew, disgruntled during the voyage, dobbed him into the
Indonesian authorities. So ... no disgruntled crew and the authorities
would likely not have known that Packer had his several weapons aboard.

Cheers

Bil

wrote:
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:43:51 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:


Leanne wrote:

I don't carry a gun on me or my boat, but guns on boats

discussions


should be made with a bit of discretion.


We just went through this discussion a bit ago on alt.rv. Should
we or should we not carry firearms in our RV. I wonder how many
gun owners have killed with their weapon. It takes a lot of
nerve to actually do it. Talking is easy.

Leanne



Of the 30,000 gun deaths in the in 2002, only 300 were "legal
interventions." I would guess most of these were professionals (police,
etc.). Over 750 were accidental. About 12000 were homicides and more
than half were suicide. Over 600 were 14 years of age or under.

Its pretty clear that if a gun is fired and kills someone, its far more
likely that the victim will be a family member, friend, or child, than
than a criminal.

Of course, these stats don't tell us how many crimes were prevented by
the threat of a gun. In some neighborhoods, and for some businesses,
this is clearly a factor, but for the average family, I think a gun is a
liability.

http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html


back in the 80's, a suburb of Chicago, Morton Grove, outlawed handgun
ownership. In response to this, a suburb of Atlanta, Kennesaw, passed
a law requiring gun ownership. In the 2 decades since this happened,
Morton Grove has maintained the rate of increase in violent crime of
any Chicago suburbs. At the same time, Kennesaw has had the lowest
rate of property and personal crime and violence. The only 2 handgun
murders in Kennesaw were at hotels there, not in homes in the
community.


You should get your fact straight before you parrot the arguments of
others. Kennesaw has a low crime rate, but not lower than many other
"bedroom suburbs" around Atlanta. If you compare to Massachusetts,
which gun advocates decry as a failed experiment in ultra liberal gun
control (we require a license for ownership), the Kennesaw crime rate is
rather high - double that of many towns in the state. Burglaries, for
instance, are much more common than in the city I live in.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:14:19 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:43:51 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:


Leanne wrote:

I don't carry a gun on me or my boat, but guns on boats

discussions


should be made with a bit of discretion.


We just went through this discussion a bit ago on alt.rv. Should
we or should we not carry firearms in our RV. I wonder how many
gun owners have killed with their weapon. It takes a lot of
nerve to actually do it. Talking is easy.

Leanne



Of the 30,000 gun deaths in the in 2002, only 300 were "legal
interventions." I would guess most of these were professionals (police,
etc.). Over 750 were accidental. About 12000 were homicides and more
than half were suicide. Over 600 were 14 years of age or under.

Its pretty clear that if a gun is fired and kills someone, its far more
likely that the victim will be a family member, friend, or child, than
than a criminal.

Of course, these stats don't tell us how many crimes were prevented by
the threat of a gun. In some neighborhoods, and for some businesses,
this is clearly a factor, but for the average family, I think a gun is a
liability.

http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html


back in the 80's, a suburb of Chicago, Morton Grove, outlawed handgun
ownership. In response to this, a suburb of Atlanta, Kennesaw, passed
a law requiring gun ownership. In the 2 decades since this happened,
Morton Grove has maintained the rate of increase in violent crime of
any Chicago suburbs. At the same time, Kennesaw has had the lowest
rate of property and personal crime and violence. The only 2 handgun
murders in Kennesaw were at hotels there, not in homes in the
community.


You should get your fact straight before you parrot the arguments of
others. Kennesaw has a low crime rate, but not lower than many other
"bedroom suburbs" around Atlanta. If you compare to Massachusetts,
which gun advocates decry as a failed experiment in ultra liberal gun
control (we require a license for ownership), the Kennesaw crime rate is
rather high - double that of many towns in the state. Burglaries, for
instance, are much more common than in the city I live in.

Not sure where you are getting your stats (I live in the Atlanta area
and worked for many years in Kennesaw and am well aware of the local
crime stats, esp. burglary and violent crime rates)


Weebles Wobble
(but they don't fall down)

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:49:39 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

When faced with questions like this, it is best to follow the advice
of confucious:

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's
mouth and remove all doubts.

I believe that this quote came from Samuel Johnson.

But as Confucious actually said:
" To know is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true
knowledge."



K'ung-fu-tzu or Kongfuzi is usually rendered in English as Confucius

Brian W

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:26:46 GMT, WaIIy
wrote:

On 18 Feb 2005 20:31:53 GMT, "Dag Stenberg"
wrote:

wrote:
My point is, most of the time, presence of a gun stops most threats.
For this same reason, I keep a pump shotgun in the bedroom. Even in
the dark, bad guys know the sound of a 12 gauge being racked.

As I have heard, this usually results in a family member getting shot.
Like your daughter who has had a bad dream and tries to get comfort from
her parents.

Dag Stenberg

"As I have heard" "this usually"

Gimme a break

Folks who won't learn from others' experience are destined to learn
another way.

Brian W

What about 12 ga flare pistols fitted with a metal insert for .410 ga
shotgun shells?


"manson" wrote in message
...
Spam Fighter wrote:

Hi,

We are working on a Power Squadron study of the "cruising lifestyle".
We
need estimates of the absolute number and percentages of cruising boats
carrying weapons. That is firearms, not flare pistols, starter pistols,
sling shots or spear guns.

Dunno about you, but if someone points a flare pistol at me, they have
my _undivided_ attention.

regards,
CrazyCam




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