Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool, and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.

The arguement that I've heard about NOT soldering is that by soldering
you create a hard connection that is subject to stress from vibration.

However, my practice is to solder ALL connections and also heat shrink
over them as well. I can't imagine any on-board connections that
would be affected by vibration except perhaps on an engine harness.
Personally, I would solder them too.

I believe that advantage of soldering is that you completely fill any
voids in a terminal or lug thus making it impossible for salt
water/air to penetrate and cause corrosion. Heat shrinking over the
connection further protects the connection.

It would be interesting to know what the mil-spec requirements are
that our navy uses for their ships. I worked in that industry, but
was not involved in cable wiring so I am not familiar with the spec.
Maybe someone knowledgeable in this mil-spec will chime in.

In answer to your question whether proper mechanical crimping with an
adhesive heat seal is enough, I think that it meats the minimum
requirements. But I think that soldering before the heat shrink is
better.

I am a belt AND suspenders type of person.......

Rich


"beaufortnc" wrote:

Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool, and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.

Rich wrote:

The arguement that I've heard about NOT soldering is that by soldering
you create a hard connection that is subject to stress from vibration.

Nonsense. Aerospace manufacturers use solder cup terminals on critical
connectors throughout aircraft and spacecraft which operate in severe
vibration and environmental conditions that you would not survive.

However, my practice is to solder ALL connections and also heat shrink
over them as well. I can't imagine any on-board connections that
would be affected by vibration except perhaps on an engine harness.
Personally, I would solder them too.

Waste of time and solder if the terminal is designed for crimping it
provides adequate mechanical support and electrical connectivity.

I believe that advantage of soldering is that you completely fill any
voids in a terminal or lug thus making it impossible for salt
water/air to penetrate and cause corrosion. Heat shrinking over the
connection further protects the connection.

Buy the cup type crimp connectors and do the same thing, they are sealed
at the connection end.

It would be interesting to know what the mil-spec requirements are
that our navy uses for their ships. I worked in that industry, but
was not involved in cable wiring so I am not familiar with the spec.
Maybe someone knowledgeable in this mil-spec will chime in.

There are pages of mil-specs. Each one is for a particular application.
Some are for mechanical crimps, some are for soldered connections.

In answer to your question whether proper mechanical crimping with an
adhesive heat seal is enough, I think that it meats the minimum
requirements. But I think that soldering before the heat shrink is
better.

If the crimp connector is sized for the wire used and the crimping tool
is a high quality (not stamped out sheet metal held together with a
cheap rivet) of the proper size and type for the connector used, no
soldering is required.

Rick

Rich wrote:
The arguement that I've heard about NOT soldering is that by soldering
you create a hard connection that is subject to stress from vibration.


And it can damage the insulation

And it can get brittle and lose it's adherence with age

However, my practice is to solder ALL connections and also heat shrink
over them as well. I can't imagine any on-board connections that
would be affected by vibration except perhaps on an engine harness.
Personally, I would solder them too.


I dunno if I buy the "hard point vs vibration" argument myself, but I've
seen plenty of failed soldered connections.

And everything on a boat vibrates.

I believe that advantage of soldering is that you completely fill any
voids in a terminal or lug thus making it impossible for salt
water/air to penetrate and cause corrosion. Heat shrinking over the
connection further protects the connection.

Well, using dielectric goo on the end before inserting it into the crimp
socket does the same thing, quicker and easier and doesn't interfere
with the crimping.


It would be interesting to know what the mil-spec requirements are
that our navy uses for their ships. I worked in that industry, but
was not involved in cable wiring so I am not familiar with the spec.
Maybe someone knowledgeable in this mil-spec will chime in.


AFAIK high voltage stuff is all crimped. It's a mix, but mil-specs
certainly call for a high degree of support for all wiring.


In answer to your question whether proper mechanical crimping with an
adhesive heat seal is enough, I think that it meats the minimum
requirements. But I think that soldering before the heat shrink is
better.

I am a belt AND suspenders type of person.......


IMHO solder will fail long before a properly sized & properly done
crimp. It may be that this is due to people using cheap solder though.

As a stockholder in 3M Co, a few years back I suggested they pursue
marketing a dielectric adhesive sealant like 5200. Didn't hear back from
them.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


"beaufortnc" wrote:


Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool, and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.

beaufortnc wrote:
Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool, and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.

This one will go back and forth. Its important to remember that the
ABYC standard says: "Solder must not be the sole means of mechanical
connection in any circuit."

Further, if not properly supported, solder can reduce the strength of
the connection: "If soldered, the connection shall be so located or
supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder
changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor."

Personally, although I use solder on a few connections, I rely on a high
quality crimping tool for my panel connections.

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool, and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Any thoughts?


I replaced the two "C" batteries in my boat with a new bank of 8
six volt batteries. When I disconnected the old batteries, one of the
soldered terminals just fell off the wire. I tested a couple others
and I was able to pull most of them right off!
The terminals appeared to have been properly soldered and they were
all shrink wrapped. But the connections had failed.
I did some research and bought an inexpensive, mallet operated
crimper made by Ancor. I used it for all my crimps over 10 gauge wire.
It works perfectly and gives a good crimp every time. The research I
did says the pressure of the crimp actually welds the tinned wire to
the terminal.
Lots of people have told me to solder first and then crimp. I do
not think this is necessary. In fact, I think it might not give as
good a connection as the crimp by itself.

Subject

If the terminal manufacturers wanted you to solder their terminals, they
would recommend you do it.

Lew

Yes, use a ratcheting crimper and double crimp fittings with adhesive lined
shrink tubing if you want the best. You can get aircraft mil spec terminals
and tools here if you're interested. No financial connection to the company,
just a satisfied customer. DON'T solder!

--


Keith
__
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
"beaufortnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool, and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.

Oops... got sent without the link: http://www.terminaltown.com/

--


Keith
__
Ever notice how people that tell you to calm down are the ones who got you
mad in the first place?
"Keith" wrote in message
...
Yes, use a ratcheting crimper and double crimp fittings with adhesive
lined shrink tubing if you want the best. You can get aircraft mil spec
terminals and tools here if you're interested. No financial connection to
the company, just a satisfied customer. DON'T solder!

--


Keith
__
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
"beaufortnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool, and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.

beaufortnc wrote:
Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've
heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder
connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool,
and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.

Mike, if done properly, with the right equipment, both soldered and
crimped connections work very well. You would be hard pressed to show
proof of one being better than the other. Manufacturers prefer crimped
connections because they cost much less than soldered connections, and
they tend to be more consistant, from part to part. Their's also no
flux residue to clean from a crimped contact.

The real problem with crimped connections is that for them to perform
as designed you need the proper crimping tool and die set from the
crimp contact manufacturer. This will produce a "gass tight seal" in
the area of the crimp. If you do not have the proper die set, and tool
(the right tool and die can cost a few hundred dollars), you may over
crimp (start breaking the strands) which can result in the contact
eventually seperating from the wire. If you under crimp the contact you
will not end up with a gass tight seal, the end result of which will be
increased resistance at the point of the crimp due to corrosion (it may
take a long time for this to happen, but it will). I have never seen
anyone outside of a manufacturer that had the proper crimping tool,
people think they have the right tool but they don't, their just not
common.

Because of the reasons above, your best bet, without spending lots of
money on special crimping tools, a soldered joint is probably the most
reliable connection method for you. Stick with tinned wires and tinned
contacts, solder with 63/37 rosen based solder, don't apply too much
solder (it can wick up under the insulation), don't melt the
insulation, and clean the flux residue off with a spray cleaned. If you
do cover the ternination with heat shrink it's also a good idea to
cover the final termination with a product like Liquid Tape. A
connectoin made in this manner should last for a long time if not
exposed to too much moisture.

I hope this helped to answer your qusetion.

John