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#21
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Paul,
Well that's interesting! I was under the impression that if I was getting paid to drive a boat I'd need the license. Thanks for that information. I figured correctly on the other part and as Peggie pointed out the insurance would be the show stopper, at least for a prudent person. If someone was rich enough and stupid enough I guess they don't have to get insurance. I don't think insurance is required as it is on a car as far as I know. But thanks for making that clarification. Paul renewontime dot com wrote: I have been told that a person could captain any size boat he'd want to provided there is no commercial interest. In other words if a person could afford a 150' boat he wouldn't be required to have a Captains license or hire a Captain to pilot the vessel. Is this correct? Paul Ok, we're talking "in the US" here, as every country is different: There's a bit more to it than that. Vessels are categorized by their intended purpose, tonnage, waters to be operated, etc. and certain vessels will require a licensed master no matter their size. But, as far as I know, you are essentially right: if you wanted to purchase a 150 foot private yacht and drive it yourself, there are no laws or regulations requiring that you carry a license or a licensed master, so long as the vessel is only used as a private yacht. In fact, there are alot of private yachts over 100' out there, and if an owner wanted to hire you to drive it, you wouldn't need a license to do so. Likewise, a license is not required (by law at least) to deliver yachts. I think this is where a lot of people get confused: It's not necessarilly whether you are paid to drive the boat, it's if you have passengers aboard who have paid to ride, thus the common expression "Passengers for Hire". The reality is this, even though the law may not require a delivery captain to have a license, if you don't have a license, you'll have a darn hard time getting work as a delivery captain. Likewise, although you may be able to afford to buy a 150' yacht, if you don't have a licensed captain aboard, you may have a very hard time insuring it. Let me just conclude by adding this: I'm not a lawyer, nor am I an expert on Federal law. I'm just a licensed mariner that is doing his best to stay within the law and protect myself and familly from "unreasonable risk". There are lots of grey areas in this business, and I've always tried to steer clear of anything that might later bite me, and I've always recommended that others do the same. All the best, |
#22
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Paul Schilter wrote:
Paul, I have been told that a person could captain any size boat he'd want to provided there is no commercial interest. In other words if a person could afford a 150' boat he wouldn't be required to have a Captains license or hire a Captain to pilot the vessel. Is this correct? Paul In .uk at least, and probably in most of the civilised world, you need a qualified master on anything over 23 metres long. The manning and qualifications required increase with length and weight. -- My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently deleted. Send only plain text. |
#23
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Cris,
Well no one has accused us of being civilized! :-) But on a more serious note, a 23 meter limit sounds reasonable. Paul Chris Newport wrote: Paul Schilter wrote: Paul, I have been told that a person could captain any size boat he'd want to provided there is no commercial interest. In other words if a person could afford a 150' boat he wouldn't be required to have a Captains license or hire a Captain to pilot the vessel. Is this correct? Paul In .uk at least, and probably in most of the civilised world, you need a qualified master on anything over 23 metres long. The manning and qualifications required increase with length and weight. |
#24
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Paul Schilter wrote: Paul, Well that's interesting! I was under the impression that if I was getting paid to drive a boat I'd need the license. Thanks for that information. I figured correctly on the other part and as Peggie pointed out the insurance would be the show stopper, at least for a prudent person. If someone was rich enough and stupid enough I guess they don't have to get insurance. I don't think insurance is required as it is on a car as far as I know. But thanks for making that clarification. Paul Its not at all unusual for people with significant net worth to "self-insure". A lot of companies do that as well. Insurance companies are primarily for people who can't afford to take the loss should it happen. If you are willing to lose the boat without crying over it, and are financially able to take care of any damage you might cause to others property, you don't need insurance. YMMV, Don W. |
#25
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In .uk at least, and probably in most of the civilised world, you
need a qualified master on anything over 23 metres long. The manning and qualifications required increase with length and weight. Thanks Chris, this is why I qualified my answer to only within the US. Personally, I think the "Yachtmaster" certification program in the UK is a great idea and a number of states are (or were) considering legislation requiring some sort of training and testing of all yacht operators. There was some momentum for this a number of years ago, but I haven't heard much about it since. But for now, we remain "uncivilized" ;-) All the best to our friends on the other side of the "ditch". -- Paul =-----------------------------------= renewontime dot com FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners http://www.renewontime.com =-----------------------------------= |
#26
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On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:34:22 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote: On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 00:16:49 GMT, Brian Whatcott wrote: On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:47:46 -0600, Tamaroak wrote: Let's say a licensed master decides to offer to donate a boat ride to a charitable organization's service auction. This group gets the money when someone pays for the ride, the buyer gets the boat ride, the captain gets nothing but a warm fuzzy feeling for contributing to the charity. This is clearly not a part of any business, and the captain is not in this business anyway. Has the captain received compensation for this according to USCG regulations? Does this mean s/he needs chartering insurance, has to be documented, etc. to do this annually? Capt. Jeff I would expect that if there is no valuable consideration to the master, he is not chartered. I know the situations are not identical, but in light aircraft, I and many other private pilots have provided rides for boy scouts and other youth organizations. One expects to be persued regardless, if one commits some breach of reasonable care in the circumstance, all the same. Brian Whatcott Altus OK Brian, USCG Captains do not, to my knowledge, have the documented protection afforded to them as Private Pilots do via FAR 61.113..... without clear regulatory guidance, the safest course would be to pose this to the local MSO (perhaps in writing) and act accordingly.... I hear you Brian W |
#27
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"renewontime dot com" wrote in message ... In .uk at least, and probably in most of the civilised world, you need a qualified master on anything over 23 metres long. The manning and qualifications required increase with length and weight. Thanks Chris, this is why I qualified my answer to only within the US. Personally, I think the "Yachtmaster" certification program in the UK is a great idea and a number of states are (or were) considering legislation requiring some sort of training and testing of all yacht operators. There was some momentum for this a number of years ago, but I haven't heard much about it since. But for now, we remain "uncivilized" ;-) All the best to our friends on the other side of the "ditch". -- Paul Chris wrote: In .uk at least, and probably in most of the civilised world, you need a qualified master on anything over 23 metres long. Don't think we have any such requirements in Canada. I understand France has some fairly stringent requirements for sailors but I've not read anything suggesting other European countries do. I suppose the EU will come out with a requirement for everyone in the future............. I see in the latest issue of Cruising World that Douglas Bernon has aquired his Yachtmaster certificate by taking the program now offered in the USA. He describes the process. In another post someone pointed out that you may be held to a higher standard of performance in a court of law if you hold such a certification even though you are just operating your vessel in a private recreational mode. Seems the knowledge gained may be useful but the certificate not so helpful (for the recreational boater). |
#28
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In article ,
Paul Schilter wrote: Paul, I have been told that a person could captain any size boat he'd want to provided there is no commercial interest. In other words if a person could afford a 150' boat he wouldn't be required to have a Captains license or hire a Captain to pilot the vessel. Is this correct? Paul renewontime dot com wrote: snipped I an not absolutly sure, but I believe in the US the Maximum Gross Weight for unlicensed Operators is 200 Tons. Anything over that requires both a Licensed Master and Chief Engineer, minimum and that changes as the Tonnage increases. I know that these mminimums are true for commercial vessels, but I am not sure for non-commercial vessels. Me |
#29
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Don W wrote:
Its not at all unusual for people with significant net worth to "self-insure". A lot of companies do that as well. It's not unusual for them to "self-drive" onto the rocks, either! I see or hear of such an incident with a multi-million dollar boat every summer. Sorry, couldn't resist that one... Insurance companies are primarily for people who can't afford to take the loss should it happen. If you are willing to lose the boat without crying over it, and are financially able to take care of any damage you might cause to others property, you don't need insurance. In principle this is true, but the fact is there are not many people financially prepared for such incidents. Besides property damage, you have to consider personal injury, legal bills, environmental cleanup costs, etc. Even with all the $0.5-2M boats out there, which seem mainstream nowadays, the people willing and able to expose themselves to this kind of liability are vanishingly few. People with that kind of money have a lot more to lose, too, and/or a lot more to sue for. Matt O. |
#30
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renewontime dot com wrote:
Personally, I think the "Yachtmaster" certification program in the UK is a great idea and a number of states are (or were) considering legislation requiring some sort of training and testing of all yacht operators. There was some momentum for this a number of years ago, but I haven't heard much about it since. I agree with this. A USCG Master license is a bit much for someone who wants to run a typical 40' sailboat or power cruiser, but there's nothing "smaller" available from USCG. However, there are programs like the ones from US Sailing or the charter companies, which may be a good substitute. Normally I'm a bit more of a socialist, but this may be one area where the private sector is handling things at least as well as government can. Perhaps what we need is legal recognition of these programs. Matt O. |
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