We're getting off topic here, but let me try to clear up a few points. I'll
try to keep it simple, but if you want more detail, I'd recommend you look
them up in the pertinent CFR (Code of Federal Regulations). If you are a
licensed Master, you should already be familiar with the CFR's. I'm
assuming we're talking about the US, BTW:

If the poster has a "Captain's License" he can accept money as long as
there are 6 or less "paying" passengers. If I pick out the words,
"licensed master" and accept them literally, your boat had better be
duly *Inspected*.

The boat does not have to be an inspected vessel for a charter.

I'm assuming we're talking about smaller vessels here, so basically there
are both "inspected" and "uninspected" vessels. Again, the regulations and
definitions are fairly lengthy and covered in the CFR's, but roughly
speaking: "uninspected" vessels may carry up to 6 passengers and inspected
vessels may carry as many passengers as their "Certificate of Inspection"
(COI) stipulates. I've driven uninspected vessels that were over 100' in
length (so could carry no more than 6 passengers), inspected vessels under
30' that were able to carry 20 passengers and a 99 ton inspected vessel that
could carry up to 1,200 passengers.

Incidently, don't confuse a vessel inspection with the USCG Aux. "voluntary
safety inspection". These are two completely different things. A vessel is
"inspected" before being put into service (a very involved process), is
issued a COI, and then is re-inspected every year.

As far as licenses go (again, I'm just speaking in rough terms) there is a
"Masters" license and then there is a "OUPV" (Operator, Uninspected
Passenger Vessel) license. The Master's license will stipulate the tonnage
and class of vessel as well as the waters to be operated in. For example, a
typical charter captain's license might be a "Master, limited to vessels 100
gross tons or less, near coastal waters with sailing and towing
endorsements". An "OUPV" license limits the operator to carrying no more
than 6 passengers on an uninspected vessel, this is what is commonly
referred to as a "six pack" license.

If the boarding officer has an attitude, you'd be
better off to have your documentation on board.... License, Drug Test,
etc.... (although if you argued that would be an admission of for-pay
intent, I'd have to concede.)

Licence only, not drug test card or CPR

Well, no. If you hold a current Master's or OUPV license, you must also be
enrolled in a urinalysis program, whether you are working or not. In my
experience, a USCG boarding is usually a very rare occurance, and usually
happens in response to an accident, complaint or tip (sometimes a
disgruntle -ex- employee). The first thing the boarding officer did was
inspect all your licenses, endorsements and certificates (and you better
have your original license with you, -not- a copy!). The second thing he
did was ordered a urinalysis for every licensed person on the vessel. If
anything was not in order, it ended up in his report. I hope to never find
out what happens next if something ends up in his report ;-)

Incidentally, if you are a licensed mariner and aren't enrolled in a
urinalysis program through your employer, you can join an organization like
the "American Professional Captain's Association" (which I'm a member of)
and for about $39 a year, you'll be enrolled in their program. While you're
at it, you can also sign up for our free email reminder service. That way
you'll never forget to renew your license, endorsements, urinalysis, CPR or
anything else. You'd be surprised how many students I've had come in to
re-take a captain's or radar course because they missed their expiration
date by a day or two...

--
Paul

=-----------------------------------=
renewontime dot com
FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners
http://www.renewontime.com
=-----------------------------------=

I'm the original poster and do have a 50T Master's ticket, but am not
doing drug testing, nor does my craft have insurance for charters. This
is an uninspected boat and I'm aware of all of the six-pac issue, but I
don't think any of these apply to the situation I'm asking about.

If I do this trip, I will not obtain any type of consideration,
"directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator,
agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel." as it's
stated in the CFR. I am also not in any way connected financially to the
charity. Think of doing this for Habit for Humanity or the Salvation
Army or a church or something like that.

I don't believe this type of boat trip requires any license whatsoever
for that reason.

Capt. Jeff

Roger Long wrote:
....snip...
The FAA for some reason is much more reasonable about these things
than the Coast Guard.

Not in my experience, FWIW.

Frank

If I do this trip, I will not obtain any type of consideration, "directly
or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any
other person having an interest in the vessel." as it's stated in the CFR.
I am also not in any way connected financially to the charity. Think of
doing this for Habit for Humanity or the Salvation
I don't believe this type of boat trip requires any license whatsoever for
that reason.

Hi Jeff,

I don't want to belabor the point, as it seems you've pretty much decided to
do this job, but I think you're missing the point. It's not necessarily
whether you are being paid or not, it's whether your passengers are paying
for a ride on a boat and what assurances they are therefore entitled to.
Even if they haven't paid a red cent, your passengers are still entitled to
certain expectations, and if something should go wrong as a licensed master,
you will be held to a higher level of scrutiny. In my opinion (and I don't
think I'm alone) you are exposing yourself to a very high level of risk.
But that is your option, and I wish you luck.

I've always erred on the side of caution. Consequently, I turn down nearly
as much work as I take on. I'm sure I'd have more money in the bank if I
took more chances, but I sleep better at night!

All the best,

--
Paul

=-----------------------------------=
renewontime dot com
FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners
http://www.renewontime.com
=-----------------------------------=

Well...Yes. As I responded to the original post, you do not need your drug
test card with you if you are stopped. You do have to have a current drug
test or be enrolled in a CG certified random testing program. ( I also am in
APCA's program) but to the statement that you must be carrying it with you
is false. You also must have current CPR, but do not have to carry the
documentation with you. All you must have in your posession if checked is
your orioginal license with endorsements.


"renewontime dot com" wrote in message



If the boarding officer has an attitude, you'd be
better off to have your documentation on board.... License, Drug Test,
etc.... (although if you argued that would be an admission of for-pay
intent, I'd have to concede.)

Licence only, not drug test card or CPR

Well, no. If you hold a current Master's or OUPV license, you must also
be
enrolled in a urinalysis program, whether you are working or not. In my
experience, a USCG boarding is usually a very rare occurance, and usually
happens in response to an accident, complaint or tip (sometimes a
disgruntle -ex- employee). The first thing the boarding officer did was
inspect all your licenses, endorsements and certificates (and you better
have your original license with you, -not- a copy!). The second thing he
did was ordered a urinalysis for every licensed person on the vessel. If
anything was not in order, it ended up in his report. I hope to never
find
out what happens next if something ends up in his report ;-)

Incidentally, if you are a licensed mariner and aren't enrolled in a
urinalysis program through your employer, you can join an organization
like
the "American Professional Captain's Association" (which I'm a member of)
and for about $39 a year, you'll be enrolled in their program. While
you're
at it, you can also sign up for our free email reminder service. That way

you'll never forget to renew your license, endorsements, urinalysis, CPR
or
anything else. You'd be surprised how many students I've had come in to
re-take a captain's or radar course because they missed their expiration
date by a day or two...

--
Paul

=-----------------------------------=
renewontime dot com
FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners
http://www.renewontime.com
=-----------------------------------=

I should have said FAA regulations. They do explicitly spell out how
you can share expenses on a flight and how charity flights can be
conducted. As in any regulatory system, you will always have your
over-the-top interpretations by individuals.

--

Roger Long



"Frank" wrote in message
ups.com...

Roger Long wrote:
...snip...
The FAA for some reason is much more reasonable about these things
than the Coast Guard.

Not in my experience, FWIW.

Frank

Paul,
I have been told that a person could captain any size boat he'd want to
provided there is no commercial interest. In other words if a person
could afford a 150' boat he wouldn't be required to have a Captains
license or hire a Captain to pilot the vessel. Is this correct?
Paul

renewontime dot com wrote:
snipped

Hi Jeff,

I don't want to belabor the point, as it seems you've pretty much decided to
do this job, but I think you're missing the point. It's not necessarily
whether you are being paid or not, it's whether your passengers are paying
for a ride on a boat and what assurances they are therefore entitled to.
Even if they haven't paid a red cent, your passengers are still entitled to
certain expectations, and if something should go wrong as a licensed master,
you will be held to a higher level of scrutiny. In my opinion (and I don't
think I'm alone) you are exposing yourself to a very high level of risk.
But that is your option, and I wish you luck.

I've always erred on the side of caution. Consequently, I turn down nearly
as much work as I take on. I'm sure I'd have more money in the bank if I
took more chances, but I sleep better at night!

All the best,

Paul Schilter wrote:
I have been told that a person could captain any size boat he'd want
to provided there is no commercial interest. In other words if a person
could afford a 150' boat he wouldn't be required to have a Captains
license or hire a Captain to pilot the vessel. Is this correct?

Yes and no...he can buy it, and he can run it. But unless he can prove
that he's acquired to skills to do so, he prob'ly won't be able to
insure it, or even get liability insurance to cover him on it. Someone
recently posted on a board I visit that they wanted to move up from a
24' to 50-something...every insurance company he talked to told him he'd
have to have a licensed captain onboard for at least a full year and
then be able to prove that he was competent to handle it himself after
that before they'd continue the insurance without a licensed captain.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1

I have been told that a person could captain any size boat he'd want to
provided there is no commercial interest. In other words if a person could
afford a 150' boat he wouldn't be required to have a Captains license or
hire a Captain to pilot the vessel. Is this correct?
Paul

Ok, we're talking "in the US" here, as every country is different:

There's a bit more to it than that. Vessels are categorized by their
intended purpose, tonnage, waters to be operated, etc. and certain vessels
will require a licensed master no matter their size. But, as far as I know,
you are essentially right: if you wanted to purchase a 150 foot private
yacht and drive it yourself, there are no laws or regulations requiring that
you carry a license or a licensed master, so long as the vessel is only used
as a private yacht. In fact, there are alot of private yachts over 100' out
there, and if an owner wanted to hire you to drive it, you wouldn't need a
license to do so. Likewise, a license is not required (by law at least) to
deliver yachts.

I think this is where a lot of people get confused: It's not necessarilly
whether you are paid to drive the boat, it's if you have passengers aboard
who have paid to ride, thus the common expression "Passengers for Hire".

The reality is this, even though the law may not require a delivery captain
to have a license, if you don't have a license, you'll have a darn hard time
getting work as a delivery captain. Likewise, although you may be able to
afford to buy a 150' yacht, if you don't have a licensed captain aboard, you
may have a very hard time insuring it.

Let me just conclude by adding this: I'm not a lawyer, nor am I an expert
on Federal law. I'm just a licensed mariner that is doing his best to stay
within the law and protect myself and familly from "unreasonable risk".
There are lots of grey areas in this business, and I've always tried to
steer clear of anything that might later bite me, and I've always
recommended that others do the same.

All the best,

--
Paul

=-----------------------------------=
renewontime dot com
FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners
http://www.renewontime.com
=-----------------------------------=

Peggie,
Thanks for the answer. That's pretty much what I figured.
Paul


Peggie Hall wrote:
Paul Schilter wrote:

I have been told that a person could captain any size boat he'd
want to provided there is no commercial interest. In other words if a
person could afford a 150' boat he wouldn't be required to have a
Captains license or hire a Captain to pilot the vessel. Is this correct?


Yes and no...he can buy it, and he can run it. But unless he can prove
that he's acquired to skills to do so, he prob'ly won't be able to
insure it, or even get liability insurance to cover him on it. Someone
recently posted on a board I visit that they wanted to move up from a
24' to 50-something...every insurance company he talked to told him he'd
have to have a licensed captain onboard for at least a full year and
then be able to prove that he was competent to handle it himself after
that before they'd continue the insurance without a licensed captain.