My "new" boat is a 1974 Yankee 30 Mk III, desiged by S&S.
It's a srong hull, and a good sailing boat...so I've been told.
But what I'm finding are construction details that I've never
approve of, even being a newbie. My biggest complaint is
that things such as teak trim, power panel, etc are "held" in
place with self-tapping screws into raw fiberglass. You can
guess how well that holds. I'm planning on fitting backing
blocks.

I got to wondering...how much does the designer have to do
with the construction of a boat? To what level of detail does
the designer specifiy the construction? Does the designer
shape the hull, spec the rigging, armwave where the bunks,
head and galley go, and the implementation is left up to the
builder?

Just curious....Norm B

The yacht designer has about as much to do with the success of a boat
as the playwright has to do with the success of a Broadway production.
The author produces a stack of paper maybe half an inch thick. The
costumes, the scenery, the casting, the lighting, the music, the fine
tuning of the actors delivery, are all in the hands of the director.
This is 99% of what the audience sees. Doing all these things right
won't turn a bad script into a good one but it is very easy to turn a
good script onto a disaster.

BTW I'm a former yacht designer and current commercial boat designer.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boats.htm


--

Roger Long



"engsol" wrote in message
...
My "new" boat is a 1974 Yankee 30 Mk III, desiged by S&S.
It's a srong hull, and a good sailing boat...so I've been told.
But what I'm finding are construction details that I've never
approve of, even being a newbie. My biggest complaint is
that things such as teak trim, power panel, etc are "held" in
place with self-tapping screws into raw fiberglass. You can
guess how well that holds. I'm planning on fitting backing
blocks.

I got to wondering...how much does the designer have to do
with the construction of a boat? To what level of detail does
the designer specifiy the construction? Does the designer
shape the hull, spec the rigging, armwave where the bunks,
head and galley go, and the implementation is left up to the
builder?

Just curious....Norm B

Self tapping screws are pretty much the norm for such applications
into glass. If they are stripped out then it is the fault of an installer
rather than the designer. Through-bolting such minutia is usually
overkill.

Doug
s/v Callista

"engsol" wrote in message
...
My "new" boat is a 1974 Yankee 30 Mk III, desiged by S&S.
It's a srong hull, and a good sailing boat...so I've been told.
But what I'm finding are construction details that I've never
approve of, even being a newbie. My biggest complaint is
that things such as teak trim, power panel, etc are "held" in
place with self-tapping screws into raw fiberglass. You can
guess how well that holds. I'm planning on fitting backing
blocks.

I got to wondering...how much does the designer have to do
with the construction of a boat? To what level of detail does
the designer specifiy the construction? Does the designer
shape the hull, spec the rigging, armwave where the bunks,
head and galley go, and the implementation is left up to the
builder?

Just curious....Norm B

Roger is right on point. I have owned mediocre designed boats that were
solidly built- Island Packet; a very well designed, well built- J/32 and a
brilliant design (by Bob Perry), but not very well built- name witheld to
protect the guilty. The J is the overall winner in my opinion, but the
Island Packet is close behind. Only the Bob Perry designed boat was built by
a builder with little financial interest and control by the designer.

Perhaps the lesson here is to look for boats where the designer has a
financial/operational interest in the building. Alas, Roger's analogy
doesn't hold water here- authors/playwrights make lousy directors.

David



"Roger Long" wrote in message
.. .
The yacht designer has about as much to do with the success of a boat
as the playwright has to do with the success of a Broadway production.
The author produces a stack of paper maybe half an inch thick. The
costumes, the scenery, the casting, the lighting, the music, the fine
tuning of the actors delivery, are all in the hands of the director.
This is 99% of what the audience sees. Doing all these things right
won't turn a bad script into a good one but it is very easy to turn a
good script onto a disaster.

BTW I'm a former yacht designer and current commercial boat designer.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boats.htm


--

Roger Long



"engsol" wrote in message
...
My "new" boat is a 1974 Yankee 30 Mk III, desiged by S&S.
It's a srong hull, and a good sailing boat...so I've been told.
But what I'm finding are construction details that I've never
approve of, even being a newbie. My biggest complaint is
that things such as teak trim, power panel, etc are "held" in
place with self-tapping screws into raw fiberglass. You can
guess how well that holds. I'm planning on fitting backing
blocks.

I got to wondering...how much does the designer have to do
with the construction of a boat? To what level of detail does
the designer specifiy the construction? Does the designer
shape the hull, spec the rigging, armwave where the bunks,
head and galley go, and the implementation is left up to the
builder?

Just curious....Norm B

I was in a seaway in a J-35 and it scared the willys out of me. Sounded
like an empty 55 gallon drum. Great racing boat in normal conditions
but not too seaworthy in the heavy stuff. Island Packets are beautful
and tough but handle like a bathtub.

Doug
s/v Callista

"David&Joan" wrote in message
news:Hp1Fd.1301$IS1.545@fed1read02...
Roger is right on point. I have owned mediocre designed boats that were
solidly built- Island Packet; a very well designed, well built- J/32 and a
brilliant design (by Bob Perry), but not very well built- name witheld to
protect the guilty. The J is the overall winner in my opinion, but the
Island Packet is close behind. Only the Bob Perry designed boat was built
by
a builder with little financial interest and control by the designer.

Perhaps the lesson here is to look for boats where the designer has a
financial/operational interest in the building. Alas, Roger's analogy
doesn't hold water here- authors/playwrights make lousy directors.

David



"Roger Long" wrote in message
.. .
The yacht designer has about as much to do with the success of a boat
as the playwright has to do with the success of a Broadway production.
The author produces a stack of paper maybe half an inch thick. The
costumes, the scenery, the casting, the lighting, the music, the fine
tuning of the actors delivery, are all in the hands of the director.
This is 99% of what the audience sees. Doing all these things right
won't turn a bad script into a good one but it is very easy to turn a
good script onto a disaster.

BTW I'm a former yacht designer and current commercial boat designer.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boats.htm


--

Roger Long



"engsol" wrote in message
...
My "new" boat is a 1974 Yankee 30 Mk III, desiged by S&S.
It's a srong hull, and a good sailing boat...so I've been told.
But what I'm finding are construction details that I've never
approve of, even being a newbie. My biggest complaint is
that things such as teak trim, power panel, etc are "held" in
place with self-tapping screws into raw fiberglass. You can
guess how well that holds. I'm planning on fitting backing
blocks.

I got to wondering...how much does the designer have to do
with the construction of a boat? To what level of detail does
the designer specifiy the construction? Does the designer
shape the hull, spec the rigging, armwave where the bunks,
head and galley go, and the implementation is left up to the
builder?

Just curious....Norm B

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:28:03 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

I was in a seaway in a J-35 and it scared the willys out of me. Sounded
like an empty 55 gallon drum. Great racing boat in normal conditions
but not too seaworthy in the heavy stuff. Island Packets are beautful
and tough but handle like a bathtub.


It is fine in heavy stuff. The noise has nothing to do with
seaworthyness.

It is not good going fast in not enough water.


Doug
s/v Callista

"David&Joan" wrote in message
news:Hp1Fd.1301$IS1.545@fed1read02...
Roger is right on point. I have owned mediocre designed boats that were
solidly built- Island Packet; a very well designed, well built- J/32 and a
brilliant design (by Bob Perry), but not very well built- name witheld to
protect the guilty. The J is the overall winner in my opinion, but the
Island Packet is close behind. Only the Bob Perry designed boat was built
by
a builder with little financial interest and control by the designer.

Perhaps the lesson here is to look for boats where the designer has a
financial/operational interest in the building. Alas, Roger's analogy
doesn't hold water here- authors/playwrights make lousy directors.

David



"Roger Long" wrote in message
.. .
The yacht designer has about as much to do with the success of a boat
as the playwright has to do with the success of a Broadway production.
The author produces a stack of paper maybe half an inch thick. The
costumes, the scenery, the casting, the lighting, the music, the fine
tuning of the actors delivery, are all in the hands of the director.
This is 99% of what the audience sees. Doing all these things right
won't turn a bad script into a good one but it is very easy to turn a
good script onto a disaster.

BTW I'm a former yacht designer and current commercial boat designer.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boats.htm


--

Roger Long



"engsol" wrote in message
...
My "new" boat is a 1974 Yankee 30 Mk III, desiged by S&S.
It's a srong hull, and a good sailing boat...so I've been told.
But what I'm finding are construction details that I've never
approve of, even being a newbie. My biggest complaint is
that things such as teak trim, power panel, etc are "held" in
place with self-tapping screws into raw fiberglass. You can
guess how well that holds. I'm planning on fitting backing
blocks.

I got to wondering...how much does the designer have to do
with the construction of a boat? To what level of detail does
the designer specifiy the construction? Does the designer
shape the hull, spec the rigging, armwave where the bunks,
head and galley go, and the implementation is left up to the
builder?

Just curious....Norm B







Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

"If Brecht had directed 'Waiting for Godot,' he would have hung a large sign at the back of the stage reading 'He's not going to come, you know. ' " -- Terry Eagleton

I'm sure this varies quite a bit. I think some designers like Perry and
Crealock checked to see how their designs were being executed. As well, I
think a boat that comes from the yard that designed it, for example
Catalina, Hunter, C&C, may be put together better than a boat from a yard
that has just bought someone's design.
In your case I think self-tapping screws would not be too unusual
considering the boat is 1974. I'm sure S&S didn't specify how the power
panel should be attached.

"engsol" wrote in message
...
My "new" boat is a 1974 Yankee 30 Mk III, desiged by S&S.
It's a srong hull, and a good sailing boat...so I've been told.
But what I'm finding are construction details that I've never
approve of, even being a newbie. My biggest complaint is
that things such as teak trim, power panel, etc are "held" in
place with self-tapping screws into raw fiberglass. You can
guess how well that holds. I'm planning on fitting backing
blocks.

I got to wondering...how much does the designer have to do
with the construction of a boat? To what level of detail does
the designer specifiy the construction? Does the designer
shape the hull, spec the rigging, armwave where the bunks,
head and galley go, and the implementation is left up to the
builder?

Just curious....Norm B

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 20:38:25 GMT, "Gordon Wedman"
wrote:

I'm sure this varies quite a bit. I think some designers like Perry and
Crealock checked to see how their designs were being executed. As well, I
think a boat that comes from the yard that designed it, for example
Catalina, Hunter, C&C, may be put together better than a boat from a yard
that has just bought someone's design.
In your case I think self-tapping screws would not be too unusual
considering the boat is 1974. I'm sure S&S didn't specify how the power
panel should be attached.

In-house designers, like Cuthbertson, Ball and Ellis at C&C, probably
made a big difference. Freelancers or designers on commission like
Perry, Dix and Brewer are at the mercy of their licensors. Usually,
they pick well, but what happens on the shop floor is out of their
hands.

Gate valves and single hose clamps were standard in '74 as well, and
fender washers and acorn nuts instead of backing plates, household
grade Romex for the AC runs, 22 gauge to the masthead...I could go on,
but let's just say my '73 C&C design is "better than factory" given my
safety and peace of mind improvements, just as retrofitting seatbelts,
stronger headlights, better brakes and electronic ignition in a 1960
sedan makes it safer and more efficient today, even though it "drives
the same".

Actually, given the composite sails I have, the bottom treatment, the
repositioned tankage and batteries and the improved running rigging,
it's possible my old boat SAILS better than factory, too. Stock then
was fine...then.

R.

Doug,

As I was reading the original post I was thinking the same thing. This is
trivial to fix. If this is the worst problem he finds then he should count
his blessings.

Of course, if this should turn out to be symptomatic of inattention to
larger details, such as the keel attachment or hull to deck joint
construction, then that should be a concern. But if the "hull" is indeed
"strong," including the main structural elements holding it all together,
then I wouldn't break a sweat about the small stuff--especially something
like trim pieces.

S&S, by the way, is a very fine designer. Although I've never sailed a
Yankee 30 I'd imagine that "engsol" probably got himself a nice boat.

--Alan Gomes

"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message
...
Self tapping screws are pretty much the norm for such applications
into glass. If they are stripped out then it is the fault of an installer
rather than the designer. Through-bolting such minutia is usually
overkill.

Doug
s/v Callista

"engsol" wrote in message
...
My "new" boat is a 1974 Yankee 30 Mk III, desiged by S&S.
It's a srong hull, and a good sailing boat...so I've been told.
But what I'm finding are construction details that I've never
approve of, even being a newbie. My biggest complaint is
that things such as teak trim, power panel, etc are "held" in
place with self-tapping screws into raw fiberglass. You can
guess how well that holds. I'm planning on fitting backing
blocks.

I got to wondering...how much does the designer have to do
with the construction of a boat? To what level of detail does
the designer specifiy the construction? Does the designer
shape the hull, spec the rigging, armwave where the bunks,
head and galley go, and the implementation is left up to the
builder?

Just curious....Norm B

"Alan Gomes" wrote in message
...
Doug,

As I was reading the original post I was thinking the same thing. This is
trivial to fix. If this is the worst problem he finds then he should count
his blessings.

Seriously!

Of course, if this should turn out to be symptomatic of inattention to
larger details, such as the keel attachment or hull to deck joint
construction, then that should be a concern. But if the "hull" is indeed
"strong," including the main structural elements holding it all together,
then I wouldn't break a sweat about the small stuff--especially something
like trim pieces.

I would hope the keel and deck are through-bolted


S&S, by the way, is a very fine designer. Although I've never sailed a
Yankee 30 I'd imagine that "engsol" probably got himself a nice boat.

I suspect so. I've always regarded them as a quality boat.

--Alan Gomes

"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message
...
Self tapping screws are pretty much the norm for such applications
into glass. If they are stripped out then it is the fault of an installer
rather than the designer. Through-bolting such minutia is usually
overkill.

Doug
s/v Callista

"engsol" wrote in message
...
My "new" boat is a 1974 Yankee 30 Mk III, desiged by S&S.
It's a srong hull, and a good sailing boat...so I've been told.
But what I'm finding are construction details that I've never
approve of, even being a newbie. My biggest complaint is
that things such as teak trim, power panel, etc are "held" in
place with self-tapping screws into raw fiberglass. You can
guess how well that holds. I'm planning on fitting backing
blocks.

I got to wondering...how much does the designer have to do
with the construction of a boat? To what level of detail does
the designer specifiy the construction? Does the designer
shape the hull, spec the rigging, armwave where the bunks,
head and galley go, and the implementation is left up to the
builder?

Just curious....Norm B